K9 vs CS9 ?
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fastbolt
Member
Hmmm ... I forgot to mention something about the post where the Sigma carrier had a problem with his spare magazines dropping rounds while simply sitting in their carry pouches. That's just not normal ... and definitely not acceptable.
A regular method of physically testing a fully loaded S&W double column magazine, is to take it and hold it upright in your hand ... with the bullet noses facing away from ... in a safe direction, so if any loose round flies out it won't strike anything, or land on anything hard ... Then, simply "shake" the magazine forward, a couple of times, as if you're trying to "shake water" off the top exposed round. Not like you're trying to throw it across the room. Simply snap your hand forward a few inches.
If the top round is dislodged by this motion you have a problem which requires further diagnosis. Check the ammunition ... .380 ammunition HAS been found in some L/E 9mm pistols. Go figure ...
We check the magazine lips, body, follower and spring. If any damage is visible, or the spring is weakened ... replacement is probably in order. Agencies which mandate the use of carry magazines for training and qualification, instead of range magazines, should watch for signs of damage to the carry magazines on the range. We can't control this away from the range, out of our knowledge, but the officer carrying the magazines should be alert to any potential damage.
I watched a couple of folks drop their loaded magazines directly onto cement, where the magazine lips struck squarely first, and they simply picked it up and put it in the locker they'd missed on their first attempt. They didn't understand why I was concerned, and wanted their magazines checked for damage and proper function on the range ... Sure, the lips might not have been damaged, but it pays to make sure, you know?
I've watched some L/E load as many rounds into their magazines as they could "stuff", without regard for actually counting them ... I've even been asked how many rounds would fit in their magazines. "Witness holes? What are those?" ... In some magazines it's possible to fit in an extra round. This isn't uncommon with the S&W 14 round 9mm magazines. The 14 round magazines won't always function reliably with a 15th round stuffed in them, though, and I'd be concerned the extra pressure of carrying them around with 1 extra round might create spring fatigue issues ...
I haven't fired the 9mm Sigma in a while, so I don't remember if it was possible to overload the magazines in the only one owned by one of our staff.
If I'd been the armorer for the L/E agency that employed the officer you observed in the gunstore, I'd have wanted to check the condition of the magazines for problems which would've allowed the rounds to fall out of the magazine(s) in the carriers. That's just not normal ...
Naturally, I'm not offering this information for people to use as a way to "check their own" magazines, as it were, but to let you know how it's important for these issues to be diagnosed, and resolved if there's a problem. The appropriate manufacturer, gunsmiths or L/E armorers (agency weapons) would probably be happy to check for these problems, if anyone has any worries about their weapon magazines.
A regular method of physically testing a fully loaded S&W double column magazine, is to take it and hold it upright in your hand ... with the bullet noses facing away from ... in a safe direction, so if any loose round flies out it won't strike anything, or land on anything hard ... Then, simply "shake" the magazine forward, a couple of times, as if you're trying to "shake water" off the top exposed round. Not like you're trying to throw it across the room. Simply snap your hand forward a few inches.
If the top round is dislodged by this motion you have a problem which requires further diagnosis. Check the ammunition ... .380 ammunition HAS been found in some L/E 9mm pistols. Go figure ...
We check the magazine lips, body, follower and spring. If any damage is visible, or the spring is weakened ... replacement is probably in order. Agencies which mandate the use of carry magazines for training and qualification, instead of range magazines, should watch for signs of damage to the carry magazines on the range. We can't control this away from the range, out of our knowledge, but the officer carrying the magazines should be alert to any potential damage.
I watched a couple of folks drop their loaded magazines directly onto cement, where the magazine lips struck squarely first, and they simply picked it up and put it in the locker they'd missed on their first attempt. They didn't understand why I was concerned, and wanted their magazines checked for damage and proper function on the range ... Sure, the lips might not have been damaged, but it pays to make sure, you know?
I've watched some L/E load as many rounds into their magazines as they could "stuff", without regard for actually counting them ... I've even been asked how many rounds would fit in their magazines. "Witness holes? What are those?" ... In some magazines it's possible to fit in an extra round. This isn't uncommon with the S&W 14 round 9mm magazines. The 14 round magazines won't always function reliably with a 15th round stuffed in them, though, and I'd be concerned the extra pressure of carrying them around with 1 extra round might create spring fatigue issues ...
I haven't fired the 9mm Sigma in a while, so I don't remember if it was possible to overload the magazines in the only one owned by one of our staff.
If I'd been the armorer for the L/E agency that employed the officer you observed in the gunstore, I'd have wanted to check the condition of the magazines for problems which would've allowed the rounds to fall out of the magazine(s) in the carriers. That's just not normal ...
Naturally, I'm not offering this information for people to use as a way to "check their own" magazines, as it were, but to let you know how it's important for these issues to be diagnosed, and resolved if there's a problem. The appropriate manufacturer, gunsmiths or L/E armorers (agency weapons) would probably be happy to check for these problems, if anyone has any worries about their weapon magazines.
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PCRCCW
Member
The S&W mag design used was the single stack....
Both mags in the guns being discussed are pretty much the same..the only difference being slight changes in the follower, locking hole and bottom plate assemblies.....
Shoot well
Both mags in the guns being discussed are pretty much the same..the only difference being slight changes in the follower, locking hole and bottom plate assemblies.....
Shoot well
fastbolt
Member
PCRCCW,
I meant the last post in response to mini14jac's observation about the Sigma pistol in the gunstore ...
I DO have a single 8-round 3913 magazine that exhibited the 2nd round moving forward after the first round is chambered, but that's probably because I installed an Extra Power magazine spring, which increased the pressure of the 2nd round against the stripper rail during the chambering of the first round. This was reduced after the magazine was left loaded in the pistol for a couple of weeks. Also, it never caused an actual functioning problem, as the recoil movement of the slide during firing was sufficient to return the top round to the rearward position so it was picked up in the normal manner.
I also really like the 3913, and now that I've added a CS9 to the safe, I've been considering getting one of the newer 3913TSW's, or maybe even a 908S ... since the both of them have the slightly better internal "finish" offered by the more extensive CNC production. My 3913 came with the regular decocking/safety body, but I discovered the slide was already milled & drilled for the spring loaded decocking body ... like the later production TSW pistols offer ... so I ordered, installed and fit one in it. The head armorer liked the variation enough that he sent his back to the Performance Center to have the modification done to the slide, and a spring loaded assembly installed to replace the regular one.
A friend with another agency liked my 3913 enough that he ordered one of the then-new TSW versions. We've both fired a LOT of rounds through them since then, and both of the 3913's have been terrific little pistols ...
We both also own CS9's, although his is one of the early production carbon steel, blued models ... but we both seem to carry the 3913's more often. I installed one of the LPA adjustable sights on his, but went with the Novak Ghost Ring rear sight, and factory Trijicon front post, on mine ... I had to modify the existing Hogue grips to fit his early version of the 3913TSW, as Hogue didn't offer one to fit the shorter grip frame.
While I like the compactness of the CS9, and its surprising accuracy, I still like the "balance" and feel of the 3913 ... I'll probably have to own a newer one sometime.
I meant the last post in response to mini14jac's observation about the Sigma pistol in the gunstore ...
I DO have a single 8-round 3913 magazine that exhibited the 2nd round moving forward after the first round is chambered, but that's probably because I installed an Extra Power magazine spring, which increased the pressure of the 2nd round against the stripper rail during the chambering of the first round. This was reduced after the magazine was left loaded in the pistol for a couple of weeks. Also, it never caused an actual functioning problem, as the recoil movement of the slide during firing was sufficient to return the top round to the rearward position so it was picked up in the normal manner.
I also really like the 3913, and now that I've added a CS9 to the safe, I've been considering getting one of the newer 3913TSW's, or maybe even a 908S ... since the both of them have the slightly better internal "finish" offered by the more extensive CNC production. My 3913 came with the regular decocking/safety body, but I discovered the slide was already milled & drilled for the spring loaded decocking body ... like the later production TSW pistols offer ... so I ordered, installed and fit one in it. The head armorer liked the variation enough that he sent his back to the Performance Center to have the modification done to the slide, and a spring loaded assembly installed to replace the regular one.
A friend with another agency liked my 3913 enough that he ordered one of the then-new TSW versions. We've both fired a LOT of rounds through them since then, and both of the 3913's have been terrific little pistols ...
We both also own CS9's, although his is one of the early production carbon steel, blued models ... but we both seem to carry the 3913's more often. I installed one of the LPA adjustable sights on his, but went with the Novak Ghost Ring rear sight, and factory Trijicon front post, on mine ... I had to modify the existing Hogue grips to fit his early version of the 3913TSW, as Hogue didn't offer one to fit the shorter grip frame.
While I like the compactness of the CS9, and its surprising accuracy, I still like the "balance" and feel of the 3913 ... I'll probably have to own a newer one sometime.
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