Kimber Montana vs Mountain Ascent

[Raptor2192]

Good evening. I am considering purchasing a lightweight and somewhat long range rifle since I have access to some 600 - 800 yard fields during deer season. I have experience shooting at 300M (Retired military) and my longest shot on a deer is 320 yards with a Rem .280. I also own a Kimber Montana in .308 and simply love this gun. Never had any issues with this rifle like some others. Shoots sub MOA and a joy to carry afield or in the mountains. But not sure I want to use this short barrel for this job or distance or do I? So I need advice on what caliber and manufacturer to go with at this range. I am considering a Kimber Montana or Mountain Ascent in .300 Win Mag and a Leupold VX6 3-18X50MM Firedot with CDS. Just not sure this caliber is right or if the Mountain Ascent is worth the extra money. Once I have selected and purchased my equipment, a friend who is a long time member of a military rifle team and very well versed in long range shooting is standing ready to train me the right way. I would appreciate any comments or recommendations. Thanks for your time. Much appreciated.

 

[jmr40]

In a Kimber, buy the 300 WSM if you really want a 30 caliber magnum. The 300 WSM gives up about 50 fps to 300 WM with comparable loads. It also needs 10-12 gr less powder to achieve 98% of the same speed and does just fine with 24" or even shorter barrels. The 300 WM really needs 26" to show it's potential. All that combines for noticeably less recoil. A 7 lb. Kimber in 300 WSM will have almost exactly the same recoil as an 8.5 lb 300 WM. The recoil from a 7 lb 300 WM is just too stiff for most people. In a heavier rifle, and if you really need that last 50 fps you'll get it with the 300 WM, but no game animal will ever notice the 50 fps.

But I believe today I'd be looking at smaller, non-magnum calibers. The better 6.5 and 7mm bullets today are simply amazing. In reality some better loads in the 280 you have will all but match what you can do with the 300 WM. The 143 gr Hornady ELD-X bullets in 6.5 Creedmoor have a BC of .626 and can be loaded to leave the muzzle at 2750 fps. There are guys are killing elk at 600 with that load. You'll need to move up to a 200 gr bullet in 30 caliber to get the same performance, with a lot more recoil.

 

[MCMXI]

The Mountain Ascent is a little lighter, has a fluted barrel, fluted bolt and bolt handle, comes with a muzzle brake and has a nice soft touch Open Country Sitka pattern over the Montana stock but personally I prefer the Montana over the Mountain Ascent. I wouldn't choose the 270 or 300 WSM in either rifle. The Win Mags feed better and have a 4+1 capacity compared to 3+1 for the WSMs. Have you thought about an 84L Montana in .280 AI or .30-06 Sprg? The 2016 Montana rifles have a threaded barrel now if you're thinking about a brake.

 

[mshootnit]

My longest shot has been with a Kimber Classic 270 WSM. I like it and have just acquired a Montana rifle co. X2 in 270 WSM. This is built on their 1999 action which is based on the Winchester mod. 70 using the original M70 trigger and improved breaching. It is a little longer and heavier than the Kimber. Points well and accurate so far. I am going to try some 140 Nosler Accubonds. I have heard good things.
I am also tempted to try a Weatherby Mark V in 257 or 270 Weatherby mag. I have a Vanguard 257 Weatherby which is pretty good. I've loaded but not tried some 117 gr. Hornady.

There are some fantastic long range 270 WSM hunting videos online. gets me excited to go to Montana!
My new Montana Rifle Co. X2

 

[Casefull]

I have a 308 montana and hunted elk and deer with it for 2 years and added a mountain ascent in 308 2 years ago. Great rifles, the speed to shoulder and swing ability are wonderful. I also have a montana in 300wsm. It literally outdoes my rem 700 in 300wm with 180g barnes bullets with 7 grains less powder. I am getting just under 3200 fps with less than 1moa for 3 shots. I love my 300wm which is a custom rifle built for me, I will grab the montana in 300wsm every time for hunting. So a agree with a previous poster in his recommendations.

 

[Raptor2192]

In a Kimber, buy the 300 WSM if you really want a 30 caliber magnum. The 300 WSM gives up about 50 fps to 300 WM with comparable loads. It also needs 10-12 gr less powder to achieve 98% of the same speed and does just fine with 24" or even shorter barrels. The 300 WM really needs 26" to show it's potential. All that combines for noticeably less recoil. A 7 lb. Kimber in 300 WSM will have almost exactly the same recoil as an 8.5 lb 300 WM. The recoil from a 7 lb 300 WM is just too stiff for most people. In a heavier rifle, and if you really need that last 50 fps you'll get it with the 300 WM, but no game animal will ever notice the 50 fps.

But I believe today I'd be looking at smaller, non-magnum calibers. The better 6.5 and 7mm bullets today are simply amazing. In reality some better loads in the 280 you have will all but match what you can do with the 300 WM. The 143 gr Hornady ELD-X bullets in 6.5 Creedmoor have a BC of .626 and can be loaded to leave the muzzle at 2750 fps. There are guys are killing elk at 600 with that load. You'll need to move up to a 200 gr bullet in 30 caliber to get the same performance, with a lot more recoil.

I have a 308 montana and hunted elk and deer with it for 2 years and added a mountain ascent in 308 2 years ago. Great rifles, the speed to shoulder and swing ability are wonderful. I also have a montana in 300wsm. It literally outdoes my rem 700 in 300wm with 180g barnes bullets with 7 grains less powder. I am getting just under 3200 fps with less than 1moa for 3 shots. I love my 300wm which is a custom rifle built for me, I will grab the montana in 300wsm every time for hunting. So a agree with a previous poster in his recommendations.

In a Kimber, buy the 300 WSM if you really want a 30 caliber magnum. The 300 WSM gives up about 50 fps to 300 WM with comparable loads. It also needs 10-12 gr less powder to achieve 98% of the same speed and does just fine with 24" or even shorter barrels. The 300 WM really needs 26" to show it's potential. All that combines for noticeably less recoil. A 7 lb. Kimber in 300 WSM will have almost exactly the same recoil as an 8.5 lb 300 WM. The recoil from a 7 lb 300 WM is just too stiff for most people. In a heavier rifle, and if you really need that last 50 fps you'll get it with the 300 WM, but no game animal will ever notice the 50 fps.

But I believe today I'd be looking at smaller, non-magnum calibers. The better 6.5 and 7mm bullets today are simply amazing. In reality some better loads in the 280 you have will all but match what you can do with the 300 WM. The 143 gr Hornady ELD-X bullets in 6.5 Creedmoor have a BC of .626 and can be loaded to leave the muzzle at 2750 fps. There are guys are killing elk at 600 with that load. You'll need to move up to a 200 gr bullet in 30 caliber to get the same performance, with a lot more recoil.

Thank you jmr40....great insight. I was leaning towards the 300 Win Mag as I am concerned that the 300 WSM will fade eventually and since I haven't stepped up to re-loading yet (next step for me, looking at a local Dillon seller's product) that factory ammo and/or brass would become scarce. I once owned a 7MM REM SAUM that suffered that same plight. Remington stopped production (I guess due to sales, etc) on the 7MM SAUM so I eventually sold it to a friend who re-loads. It was a great rifle for me and he now has it tuned as a tack driver. I searched on factory ammo in 300 WSM and it is widely sold. So I am now looking for a Kimber 300 WSM in either Montana or Mountain Accent. I will make my final decision based on pricing. Would love to have the Mountain Ascent model but not required. Thanks for taking the time to reply to an experienced hunter but not an experienced shooter or re-loader. Without you guys, we will never learn and excel.

 

[Raptor2192]

I have a 308 montana and hunted elk and deer with it for 2 years and added a mountain ascent in 308 2 years ago. Great rifles, the speed to shoulder and swing ability are wonderful. I also have a montana in 300wsm. It literally outdoes my rem 700 in 300wm with 180g barnes bullets with 7 grains less powder. I am getting just under 3200 fps with less than

I have a 308 montana and hunted elk and deer with it for 2 years and added a mountain ascent in 308 2 years ago. Great rifles, the speed to shoulder and swing ability are wonderful. I also have a montana in 300wsm. It literally outdoes my rem 700 in 300wm with 180g barnes bullets with 7 grains less powder. I am getting just under 3200 fps with less than 1moa for 3 shots. I love my 300wm which is a custom rifle built for me, I will grab the montana in 300wsm every time for hunting. So a agree with a previous poster in his recommendations.

for 3 shots. I love my 300wm which is a custom rifle built for me, I will grab the montana in 300wsm every time for hunting. So a agree with a previous poster in his recommendations.

Thank you for replying....I am leaning towards the Kimber 300 WSM since hunting is the primary task for this rifle. Your recommendation will most likely be followed. Again, thanks for all your help.

 

[Raptor2192]

My longest shot has been with a Kimber Classic 270 WSM. I like it and have just acquired a Montana rifle co. X2 in 270 WSM. This is built on their 1999 action which is based on the Winchester mod. 70 using the original M70 trigger and improved breaching. It is a little longer and heavier than the Kimber. Points well and accurate so far. I am going to try some 140 Nosler Accubonds. I have heard good things.
I am also tempted to try a Weatherby Mark V in 257 or 270 Weatherby mag. I have a Vanguard 257 Weatherby which is pretty good. I've loaded but not tried some 117 gr. Hornady.

There are some fantastic long range 270 WSM hunting videos online. gets me excited to go to Montana!
My new Montana Rifle Co. X2

MSHOOTNIT, thanks for your reply....you have a beautiful Montana Rifle Co, rifle! Sounds like WSM is the ticket. Thank you sir.

 

[Raptor2192]

The Mountain Ascent is a little lighter, has a fluted barrel, fluted bolt and bolt handle, comes with a muzzle brake and has a nice soft touch Open Country Sitka pattern over the Montana stock but personally I prefer the Montana over the Mountain Ascent. I wouldn't choose the 270 or 300 WSM in either rifle. The Win Mags feed better and have a 4+1 capacity compared to 3+1 for the WSMs. Have you thought about an 84L Montana in .280 AI or .30-06 Sprg? The 2016 Montana rifles have a threaded barrel now if you're thinking about a brake.

MCMXI....Thanks for the quick reply and yet additional and unique insight. I love this forum...I have a Rem .280 and it shoots well. So wasn't considering the 280AI. I have never been a fan of the 30-06 although I used it early on in the thick laurel and brush of the WV mountains. I hadn't heard about the WSM feed problems. Please tell me more as I do have an opportunity to purchase a Kimber 300 WIN MAG with threaded barrel this week at a decent price. I wasn't considering a muzzle break but toyed with the idea of a suppressor to quiet my shots (I am aware that the zero changes with or without the suppressor. I don't need a Mountain Ascent. The Montana is fine with me especially the threaded barrel model. And I can spend the money saved on better optics. I spoke briefly to a friend who re-loads about both models last nite. He cited the pro's and con's of both Win Mag and WSM. He didn't lean either way. He did mention the belted characteristic of the WIN MAG cartridge. Tell me more about feed problems with WSM when you have time as I was beginning to lean towards the WSM this morning. Thanks for your time and support!

 

[Steve S.]

I shoot a Kimber 84M CC in .308; love this rifle - light, accurate and well made. However, it is a thumper when the trigger is pulled, especially at the bench - I cannot imagine the thump of a magnum round out of such a light rifle (or maybe I am just a sissy). Good shooting!

 

[Raptor2192]

I shoot a Kimber 84M CC in .308; love this rifle - light, accurate and well made. However, it is a thumper when the trigger is pulled, especially at the bench - I cannot imagine the thump of a magnum round out of such a light rifle (or maybe I am just a sissy). Good shooting!

Thanks Steve...primary purpose will be for hunting. So while I certainly agree with you, other than break in time at the bench and annual sight in, the thump has never bothered me. The lightweight and out of the box accuracy means more to me. Sometimes I feel like I am carrying a toy gun afield it is so light. Lol. But it has never failed me on the hunt. Maybe I have been lucky with my Kimber's as I have never experienced any issues. Thanks for replying.

 

[MCMXI]

Raptor2192, my first Kimber rifle was an 8400 Montana in 300 WSM and then I added an 8400 Talkeetna, 84M Montana in .308 Win and 8400 Montana in .300 Win Mag. In addition I bought an 84M in .308 Win earlier in the year for my girlfriend. Anyone who thinks belted magnums are a problem has no experience with them. The WSMs are good cartridges but to me offer no real advantage over the belted magnums. I handload for three belted magnums and get great accuracy and virtually infinite case life. I necksize only bumping the shoulder back .002" when needed and anneal the shoulder/neck. Federal Vital-Shok Trophy Copper is the best factory hunting ammunition I've found and works really well in most Kimber rifles. The short and fat WSM cartridges can be problematic when there are three rounds in the magazine. Kimbers are CRF so the case rim needs to slide up and under the extractor. With the longer belted magnums with more room in the magazine the angle between the case head and bolt face is less extreme during feeding compared to the WSMs and they'll feed empty cases. If you're set on a WSM I suggest that you test feeding from a full magazine before you buy. As for recoil, when it comes to the Montana, Mountain Ascent, Adirondack or Hunter, you won't find a softer shooting rifle of the same weight anywhere. The Kimber brake works really well at the cost of a lot more noise.

 

[Raptor2192]

Raptor2192, my first Kimber rifle was an 8400 Montana in 300 WSM and then I added an 8400 Talkeetna, 84M Montana in .308 Win and 8400 Montana in .300 Win Mag. In addition I bought an 84M in .308 Win earlier in the year for my girlfriend. Anyone who thinks belted magnums are a problem has no experience with them. The WSMs are good cartridges but to me offer no real advantage over the belted magnums. I handload for three belted magnums and get great accuracy and virtually infinite case life. I necksize only bumping the shoulder back .002" when needed and anneal the shoulder/neck. Federal Vital-Shok Trophy Copper is the best factory hunting ammunition I've found and works really well in most Kimber rifles. The short and fat WSM cartridges can be problematic when there are three rounds in the magazine. Kimbers are CRF so the case rim needs to slide up and under the extractor. With the longer belted magnums with more room in the magazine the angle between the case head and bolt face is less extreme during feeding compared to the WSMs and they'll feed empty cases. If you're set on a WSM I suggest that you test feeding from a full magazine before you buy. As for recoil, when it comes to the Montana, Mountain Ascent, Adirondack or Hunter, you won't find a softer shooting rifle of the same weight anywhere. The Kimber brake works really well at the cost of a lot more noise.

Awesome reply...thank you so much. I have settled on the Kimber Montana 300 Win Mag with threaded barrel. So I can add the brake or suppressor if desired. Got a good price so that made the difference amongst all of the comparison comments and expert replies. Thank you again for the reply and all of the rest who took the time to educate me. I will remember the .002 bumping technique when I go to my re-loader buddy.

 

[MCMXI]

So I can add the brake or suppressor if desired.

You'll need the 7/16-28 to 5/8-24 adapter for a suppressor or a non Kimber brake. I wouldn't even consider a non Kimber brake since the factory brake works very well, is a direct fit and the O.D. matches the barrel for a clean look. As I said earlier, Federal Trophy Copper works well and Barnes bullets are the way to go for handloads. Just my personal experience with Kimber rifles. Here are two 5-shot groups and a 6-shot group using loads that I worked up for Kimber rifles utilizing Barnes bullets.

Kimber 84M Montana .308 Win Barnes 165gr TTSX

Kimber 8400 Talkeetna .375 H&H Barnes 250gr TTSX

Kimber 84L Mountain Ascent .270 Win Barnes 130gr TTSX

 

[Raptor2192]

MCMXI....thanks...I was aware of the adapter and have checked their web site for weeks but it is out of stock. Thats ok...I have time...been waiting on NFA approval for about 5 months now.....I figure I got at least 6 more months to wait. Ugh! As for the brake...I agree and will go with the Kimber stock brake as well. Again, thanks for all your help. Love this forum and all of you experts. This is how we get the youth of America interested in hunting (if desired) and shooting sports.

 

[mshootnit]

MSHOOTNIT, thanks for your reply....you have a beautiful Montana Rifle Co, rifle! Sounds like WSM is the ticket. Thank you sir.

Congrats on your rifle, I am sure you will like it!

 

[mshootnit]

MCMXI....Thanks for the quick reply and yet additional and unique insight. I love this forum...I have a Rem .280 and it shoots well. So wasn't considering the 280AI. I have never been a fan of the 30-06 although I used it early on in the thick laurel and brush of the WV mountains. I hadn't heard about the WSM feed problems. Please tell me more as I do have an opportunity to purchase a Kimber 300 WIN MAG with threaded barrel this week at a decent price. I wasn't considering a muzzle break but toyed with the idea of a suppressor to quiet my shots (I am aware that the zero changes with or without the suppressor. I don't need a Mountain Ascent. The Montana is fine with me especially the threaded barrel model. And I can spend the money saved on better optics. I spoke briefly to a friend who re-loads about both models last nite. He cited the pro's and con's of both Win Mag and WSM. He didn't lean either way. He did mention the belted characteristic of the WIN MAG cartridge. Tell me more about feed problems with WSM when you have time as I was beginning to lean towards the WSM this morning. Thanks for your time and support!

I have never had a problem with my WSMs feeding. Problem denotes that the rifle will not function. Both my WSM rifles cycle with alacrity.
What it really boils down to is long action vs. short action. This is because the objectives of the WSM developers were to:
1. Exceed standard long action cartridge performance, while aproaching magnum cartridge performance.
2. Do this in a short action rifle which would be lighter to carry and more nimble.
3. Utilize a modern efficient case with short powder column and no belt.

The WSMs meet these objectives well.

 

[MCMXI]

mshootnit, it's good to hear that your WSMs feed well from a full magazine. The difference in weight between WSM and equivalent long magnum chambered rifles is typically around 4oz. That's not enough to be significant... to me. I'm not trying to diminish the WSMs but I've been there and done that and favor the .300 Win Mag and .375 H&H Mag for my hunting needs.

 

[mshootnit]

300 Win Mag and 375 H&H are workhorses for sure.

 

[Casefull]

I bought my kimber montana 300wsm used. It would sometimes have the feed problems mentioned, probably why it was on the rack. A minuscule removal of metal in feed ramp area cured the problem. I think it may have been a early production rifle, anyway it was a good deal and a great rifle .