Blackpowderwarrior
Member
What are these guys proofed at?
They are serious tanks
They are serious tanks
Kirst cylinders proofing?;
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Captain*kirk
Member
Way more than you will be loading if you stick to factory ammo, and far above what your plain steel BP barrel is capable of handling.
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Blackpowderwarrior
Member
I reload within saami spec's.
Smokeless and bp
This was a question I've been offering a long time.
The cylinder appears that it would easily hold +p though the BP revolver may or may not hold up long depending on tolerances etc ..
Smokeless and bp
This was a question I've been offering a long time.
The cylinder appears that it would easily hold +p though the BP revolver may or may not hold up long depending on tolerances etc ..
45 Dragoon
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Information that can only lead to trouble.
Captain*kirk
Member
It's not the cylinder you should be worried about. The barrels are not proofed for smokeless loads. There's your weak link.
hawg
Member
The frames are lower quality steel than modern firearms. Overload them and sooner or later they will crack somewhere.
Jim Watson
Member
Let us know if Kirst says their cylinders are proof tested at 30% over like a complete gun.
45 Dragoon
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So how would you do that? In one with a loose arbor, with a loose wedge . . . wedge in with thumb pressure, all of the above . . . they have no idea what Billy Bob's gonna put the cylinder in. So, why would they EVER say what the proof is ???
It's an insane question ( no offense o.p.) but it's just asking for trouble.
I say make your own cylinder and tell everybody what the numbers are . . .
Mike
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Blackpowderwarrior
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Mike,
Just ponderings of mine . Hel I wonder the same thing about the black powder cylinders. I figured a man such as yourself with experience in the 45 ACP opentop kirst platform would bring something to the table Numbers wise.
Guys this is just pondering not me loading up a magnum in a opentop
Jim Watson
Member
Even in Europe under proof law and CIP, there seems no requirement to proof test parts. Buy a kit gun and the barrel and cylinder are unmarked. So I doubt Kirst does, either.
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Blackpowderwarrior
Member
I know the Italians send the bp guns to the proofing house and shoot at least 1 cylinder
45 Dragoon
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I get it but you're not the only one seeing this ! No telling what someone might do if you gave them a number . . . So, I'd rather the thread be removed. I'm pretty sure you're not supposed to give reloading recipes out for obvious reasons and likewise, why would anyone throw out a max number so someone else could get hurt / killed?!!
There's no need!! I had asked for a moderator to remove it this morning but they thought different I guess.
No offense Blackpowderwarrior but that info is not needed to shoot these cylinders.
My honest opinion.
Mike
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hawg
Member
Completed guns yes. Kit guns no.
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Cylinder first because it has to contain the charge. Highest pressure is in the cylinder. After the cylinder, a lot of gas/pressure escapes from the barrel & cylinder gap.
Barrels #2 b/c of the pressure and the flying lead.
Frame has to hold it everything together but if it's cracked, it becomes a stagnant display or training tool. BTW, most modern revolvers that fail involve blowing of the cylinder and topstrap first.
Captain*kirk
Member
Considering the gun is not an open top Colt....
Open Tops have a massive arbor that can withstand more pressure than a top-strap Remington can. The problem (I'll agree; it's secondary) is still the barrel. I recall reading a post (I believe on this forum) by a gentleman (can't recall who) that cut several inches off a barrel and rather than throwing it away, had the cut-off analyzed by a metallurgy lab. Results were that it was mild steel. So even with a Kirst or Howell cylinder proofed for smokeless loads, you are still rolling the dice with the barrel. This is the main reason both Kirst and Howell advocate staying at or under Cowboy load velocities.
Just wanted to clarify.
armoredman
Member
I just started with a Howell conversion cylinder for my New Model Army, and I will not go over Standard Pressure 45 Colt loads, more like keeping it to the lower half of Standard Pressure. I really like my old hog leg and don't want to damage it.
Captain*kirk
Member
Kirst and Howell.
From the Kirst website:
The 1860 Army Kirst Cartridge Konverter® is made for Pietta and Uberti replica revolvers. The 1860 Kirst Konverter® was designed with safety notches between chambers so you can safely carry five rounds of .45 LC and .45 Schofield, or .45 ACP ammo, plus it is SASS legal for Cowboy Action Shooting matches. Once converted, the 1860 Army can fire Standard Pressure and Cowboy Action ammo in .45 LC and .45 Schofield, or .45 ACP. No F.F.L. paperwork is required to purchase a Kirst Konverter. Note: The use of jacketed ammo may cause slightly more wear to the bore of the barrel than using lead bullets. Don’t use +P ammo or any other high-pressure ammunition.
From the Howell website:
What is Cowboy Ammo?
Cowboy ammunition is loaded with lead bullets and either smokeless powder, black powder, or black powder substitutes in a brass case. We do not recommend using ammo with a muzzle velocity over 850 fps/12,000psi.
A few manufacturers that make cowboy ammo:
- Choice Ammunition
- Black Hills
- Fiocchi
- Ultramax
- HSM Cowboy
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Blackpowderwarrior
Member
Mike thanks for the explanation.
What you have on me is wisdom, I'm still a young buck and appreciate the experience and explanation
Mods please remove this thread as it serves no purpose
45 Dragoon
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Good on you Blackpowderwarrior!!!
I respect the heck out of you for that ! It really is the right thing to do. We don't want anyone getting hurt and we sure don't want Walt to have any reason to shut down !!
Jim Watson
Member
The Speer manual folks once made a S&W single shot "cylinder" with pressure transducer. They concluded that maximum pressure was reached as the bullet was crossing the gap.
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