Knife fight ends in murder charge

[Quartus]

The story is very short on information. It could be a good man is being charged for the crime of being an American who had to defend himself, or it could be that a troublemaker is getting what he deserves. Either way, it looks like a knife evened up 3 against 5 odds.

http://www.expatica.com/source/site_article.asp?subchannel_id=26&story_id=6750

19 April 2004

WIESBADEN - A US soldier was arrested early Sunday after allegedly stabbing one person to death and seriously wounding three others in a discotheque fight in Wiesbaden.

Police said the GI, 23, was arrested at the scene after a fight between three US soldiers and a group of five young men in the disco at around 2:20 in the morning.

Police said the dead victim was an 18-year-old Italian who died on the scene. The nationalities of the three wounded men were not given.

Initial police investigations found that the fight began after one of the American soldiers slapped the buttocks of a woman. Numerous witnesses to the stabbings suffered shock and had to be given medical treatment.

Police said security personnel in the crowded disco were slow in noticing the fight going on.

A smidgen more info here.

 

[brownie0486]

Hard to believe both were charged with murder when only one did the cutting according to the info at hand at this time.

Must be more to it than what is out there presently for both to go downtown under arrest. And of course, we'll presume alcohol was involved with all of them as it was a place that served it, until otherwise determined.

Brownie

 

[Smoke]

Usually it is considered in poor taste to kill another in a foreign country unless Uncle Sam tells you to. I suspect this soldier (even if legitimate self defense) will be hung out to dry.

Article says "He was the only one armed".

Not good. Hope it works out.

Smoke

 

[The Tourist]

Brownie,

Can soldiers be tried for 'felony murder'? If so, that would explain why the second guy was charged.

 

[brownie0486]

Tourist:

It's been so long since I was in that I would not care to guess. I would think the country where it occured and their rules and laws play a big part in what happens and who goes where.

I suspect that the military will court martial and discharge them after some serious jail time. They also be vulnerable to time in a civilain jail after the mils get done with them.

Most countries have an understanding about the pecking order and who has jurisdiction over mils in the particular country.

Brownie

 

[krept]

I know that stabbings are never really clean or pretty but because of this

Numerous witnesses to the stabbings suffered shock and had to be given medical treatment.

it sounds particularly bad.

 

[Quartus]

It's been so long since I was in that I would not care to guess. I would think the country where it occured and their rules and laws play a big part in what happens and who goes where.

I suspect that the military will court martial and discharge them after some serious jail time. They also be vulnerable to time in a civilain jail after the mils get done with them.

Most countries have an understanding about the pecking order and who has jurisdiction over mils in the particular country.

You have it backwards, Oh Great Brown One. If the crime is committed off of the military installation, the local laws apply, and the U.S. military has to wait its turn. The arrest of two of them is surprising - I would have expected them to have arrested ALL the GIs involved and charged them with SOMETHING. Whenever, and by whatever means, the locals get done with them, the U.S. authorities will have to decide if they really did wrong or got railroaded. Depending on how long they spent in a local prison, and whether or not the U.S. agrees that they were guilty, they may get re-instated ("Sorry, guys, not your fault but there was nothing we could do. Have a beer and we'll ship you home now.") or disciplined as having been A.W.O.L. or a deserter. ("You didn't show up for duty for 10 years. That you got yourself busted is no excuse.") The U.S. military will not charge them with the same crimes as the local gummit did, unless they committed those crimes against other GIs, perhaps.


When my outfit left Germany in '77 (Operation Reforger - an annual NATO nonsense) we left a dozen or so guys in German prisons. They broke local laws, they were punished under local laws, and the only thing Uncle Sam could do was to say 'pretty please don't be too hard on them'. They were expected to be charged with desertion when they got out. We were all warned that those were the rules.

One of them we left behind had committed the crime of refusing to pay for services rendered by some local ladies. (It was legal there at the time.) Too bad, dumbkopf.

 

[brownie0486]

Quartus :

Thats why I put the disclaimer in there about the local gov and mils having an understanding. Apparently in Germany the agreement is the civs get them first off base. That would seem logical as we have had bases there and these incidents of arrest of mils off base have a long history.

I wonder if it ever was the other way around and had to be changed due to pressures applied sometime afterwards.

When I was in and on anothers soil, we would be arrested and charged by the locals, then moved to mil base for dispositions, then turned over to the locals, dependant on the crimes involved.

The Corps had more punishment for our indiscretions off base [ or any on base ] than local laws and so the locals deferred to the mil [ at that time which may have also changed by now and in fact probably has ].

I was surprised the other GI was charged with the same crime, but like you, also surprised they didn't pull all the GI's in on some charges as you mention as well.

Brownie

 

[Thumper]

There for the grace of God...

This brings back memories of MY Army days. I have a scar on my thigh from a DEEP stab wound from a bar fight at the Rock Fabrik in Augsburg. The Turkish guy that stuck me luckily left the knife in there, so that's the only cut. My buddy Bobby got him with a full champagne bottle.

I kept the knife for a long time but lost it somewhere along the way.