Last round stovepipes

[Teapot]

My last round just started stovepiping consistantly in my Norinco 1911A1. The pistol was bought new and has about 3k through it onek of factory and the others reloads for IPSC.
I have been told a new extractor is called for. Any ideas on the Ed Brown Hardcore as opposed to another company?
Though I cannot find the posting now, 1911 Tuner wrote that an EGW firing pin block would tame recoil a bit. Trouble is, Brownells carries two models; regular and oversize. Which one should I buy?

 

[Mad Chemist]

Since it's only the last round that stovepipes, I would rule out the mag(s) before working on the gun.

 

[DogBonz]

I would check

the follower in the mag. Or you may have a weak mag spring. Get a good mag, then test.

 

[1911Tuner]

Last Round

Last round stovepipe...Case crushed between the slide and the barrel hood? Ejection a little erratic on the others?

 

[Teapot]

Yes, 1911 Tuner, the casing gets crushed half way almost. Pretty devastating.
The round's rim is partially in the magazine lips and mouth is caught on the slide's forward edge of the ejection port. Of course the casing is tilted upward at about a 45 degree angle.
This problem happened for the first time last Saturday.

 

[1911Tuner]

Crushed

Extractor problem. Specifically, clocking. More tension will probably help, but if the extractor is clocking badly because of a mislocated channel or incorrectly machined hook, more tension may not cure it.

What happens is that the last round doesn't have the convex surface of a round under it. The tension is good enough to extract it, but the extractor clocks and lets the round drop low on the breechface. It pushes the follower down far enough to prevent slidelock, and sometimes will actually stuff the empty case partially back into the magazine. The slide rides forward and strips it...it noses up, and gets crushed.

Seen it many times.

 

[Teapot]

What do you suggest I do? Bear in mind that I have had the gun for a couple of years without any problems. Three thousend rounds have been shot without issue.

 

[1911Tuner]

re:

Remove the extractor from the slide. Slip it back into the channel butt first with the hook facing left. Place your thumb on the center pad...hook your index finger over the opposite side, and bend it just a little...a L-I-T-T-L-E.
Easy. Too much, and the gun will fail to go to battery.

Test it by chambering a round at full speed...Remove the magazine...Pull back on the slide just far enough to get it free of the chamber, but not far enough to touch the ejector. The round should lightly sag, but shouldn't fall through the magwell, even if you shake the gun up and down a few times.

If you do this with live ammo, use all due caution.

 

[Teapot]

Working on it now.

 

[Teapot]

1911 Tuner,

Got the Extractor in butt-first. Hook or claw is facing to the left. Do I want to bend the shaft to the left? This will place the hook closer to the firing pin hole when it is re-assembled, correct? But the bend should not be below the centre pad is this right? Just from the centre pad up to the hook.

 

[1911Tuner]

re:

Yep. You want to bend the hook toward the firing pin hole to increase the tension. The bend should be in the middle, or close to it.

If it works for a while and repeats the problem within about 500 rounds, replace the extractor. It's lost its temper.

 

[Teapot]

Thank-you 1911Tuner.

Since I've no snap-caps I'll leave the test until I get to the range this Sunday.
I will be getting a new extractor as having a spare can't hurt. Would you suggest the Ed Brown Hardcore or one of a different steel. I read your post regarding the extractor steel and also the firing pin stop.

Can I just put the firing pin stop in without any file work? I have a dread of ruining things by working on them without actually knowing what I am doing.
To feel confident I would need to understand just what it is I am trying to achieve and be able to visualize it in my mind. Doing this work without a basis of knowledge is like doing the work in the dark.

 

[Teapot]

Ok, did the test after all and the round held firm even with a shaking of the pistol. I'll shoot on the weekend and see if this did the trick. Thank-you for your kindness 1911Tuner and for all who commented.

 

[1911Tuner]

Stop

Mighty welcome Teapot, and...yes. The firing pin stop is oversized and requires filing to fit. The square-bottomed stop also requires that you cut a radius on it. Not a major task if you're handy with a file, but easy to screw the pooch if you're not.

 

[Teapot]

1911Tuner, the firing pin stop, I suppose the amount filed is determined by the individual pistol. What about filing a radius? Is the radius the same for every gun?

If you could explain what needs to be done I should greatly appreciate it. I'll give it a try and see how it turns out.

 

[1911Tuner]

re:

Yep. The final sizing depends on the gun's specs, if you want a press-fit. I generally go for a light press-fit, so I won't have to fight with it to strip the slide...or you can just cut it to the size of your present stop, or a little larger for a slip-fit. The advantages of a correctly sized and fitted stop are that it positively keeps the extractor straight up and correctly located, and it prevents the possibility of the stop falling out during the cycle and tying up the gun. Usually only happens when the firing pin spring gets tired, but it's another thing that I like to do in order to keep Murphy at bay.

The radius? It can vary. The original, pre-1918 radius on the stop was .078 inch...or about 5/64ths. The revised radius was...and is...7/32nds inch. I normally cut a 1/16th radius, but exact sizing isn't critical as long as it's small. The smaller the radius, the more of the slide's energy is absorbed by the mainspring. Tends to cut down on the slide to frame impact and reduces the gun's flip a bit when the slide impacts. Cutting a radius is an aquired skill, but can be done correctly on the first try if you're careful. I've seen some truly beautiful ones done by guys who had never done it before. A radius really isn't necessary though. George Smith of EGW advises that a small 45-degree bevel will work just as well...but it has to be straight, or you'll side-load the hammer pin.

Cutting to fit the slide is usually a simple matter of reducing the width...and occasionally the thickness...with the extractor removed, for a slip-fit, and final fitting with the extractor installed for the press fit, if desired. Again, the sides should be cut square and parallel, or very close. There's a technique that I use that works well, but it's been a long haul since 0400 today, and I'll have to go over it tomorrow. It's all I can do to keep my face off the keyboard right now.

Meanwhile, here's a picture to compare. On the left is a 7/32nds radius...pretty much standard since January of 1918. In the center is one of mine with about a 1/16th radius, or just a bit larger. On the right is one that I cut slightly smaller than standard...maybe 3/16ths or so.

 

[Teapot]

Appreciate you taking the time 1911Tuner.

What about using sand-paper on a flat surface and simply rubbing the back and sides of the stop on it? This might prevent taking off too much material inadvertantly.
I wish you had a diagram. The radius is what has me worried not so much the fitting of the stop into the slot.

As regards the extractor, do you not favour the steel of the Ed Brown Hardcore? What would you recommend in it's stead?

Sorry to be asking so many questions. Have a good nights sleep. Hope to hear from you to-morrow.

 

[1911Tuner]

re:

Okay...Finally grabbed a few minutes between dealin' with the dogs.

Teapot, you can use sandpaper, but it's gonna be a slow process. If you go with the Ed Brown firing pin stop, you may not need to do anything, or very little. The ones that I've seen aren't quite as oversized as the EGW. They also don't come with a square bottom, so you're pretty much stuck with the
7/32nds radius. Not a bad thing at all...just not "tuneable" for slide delay.

Cutting the radius is a pretty simple matter, but you have to keep it straight across. If you use abrasive paper,roll the corner toward you with a swiping motion. Keep an eye on it as the radius forms, and adjust pressure to one side or the other if it starts to get crooked. The simplest way is to just bevel the corner at 45 degrees. It'll work just as well. It just won't have a finished appearance.


I used to use Brown's hardcore extractors a lot, and had very good service.
I've switched to Wilson Bulletproof for a couple of reasons, none of which have anything to do with a difference in quality. One is as good as the other, but the Wilson has a couple of features that I like. One...the extractor slot is a bit shallower and sometimes requires light fitting of the stop. Good for preventing extractor clocking without going the full route of fitting an oversized stop. The other is that the front pad behind the hook is slightly oversized, and lets me locate the hook where I want it in relation to the breechface centerline, and is a handy feature if the extractor channel is a little out of spec from side to side. The Brown has the bevel on the bottom of the hook wall already cut. The Wilson doesn't. Both have square corners on the hook, which I radius slightly. Depending on how much distance between rear of hook and breechface is present...you may need to cut a small forward angle at the bottom of the hook for smooth extractor pickup too. I suggest doing that before you do the radius on the hook.

 

[Teapot]

I think I'll get the EGW stop and the Ed Brown Extractor. The stop I have now has too much play. I can actually move it up, down, left and right. Yes, I'll tune the stop.
Thank-you for taking the time to teach me something 1911Tuner.