Lead bullet problems continue (MBC)

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I cannot understand what the problem here is. I cast my bullets from 9 lbs. ww and 1 lb of 50/50 solder or Lyman# 2 sized to 358 and push to near 1300 fps and never have a lead problem. Some rifle loads about 2200 fps , no lead. This bore looks a little like I'v seen when I use Lee alox lube after sizing tumble lubed bullets for hot loads. Do I see excess lube around the bore in the picture?
 
I guess my experiment is over. I'm going back to softer lead when these are gone. I suppose I can use the Oregon trail bullets for VERY hot loads w/out leading.
Click to expand...
I guess my experiment is over. I'm going back to softer lead when these are gone. I suppose I can use the Oregon trail bullets for VERY hot loads w/out leading.
Click to expand...
BTW what was the BHN on the Oregon Trail Bullets? Because if they are 14BHN or lower you owe me a hero cookie for my post :neener:...lol Just kidding.

There is a possibility that the MBC batch were harder than they were suppose to be. There are plenty of people who use MBC with the same load and pressure as you without the same issue so I would consider it a possibility. I once had a batch of cast bullets that leaded my whole barrel. Had me puzzled as I was using the same powder charge and same bullets as before. I opened the second box and loaded some of hem and the problem disappeared. Evidently there was a problem with the first box, it happens.

I am just glad you got it worked out.
 
oldcelt said:
I cannot understand what the problem here is. I cast my bullets from 9 lbs. ww and 1 lb of 50/50 solder or Lyman# 2 sized to 358 and push to near 1300 fps and never have a lead problem. Some rifle loads about 2200 fps , no lead. This bore looks a little like I'v seen when I use Lee alox lube after sizing tumble lubed bullets for hot loads. Do I see excess lube around the bore in the picture?
Click to expand...

No extra lube was used...only what MBC and Oregon Trail puts in their lube groove. There is, however, some residual lube as best I can tell.
 
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Wreck-n-Crew said:
BTW what was the BHN on the Oregon Trail Bullets? Because if they are 14BHN or lower you owe me a hero cookie for my post :neener:...lol Just kidding.

There is a possibility that the MBC batch were harder than they were suppose to be. There are plenty of people who use MBC with the same load and pressure as you without the same issue so I would consider it a possibility. I once had a batch of cast bullets that leaded my whole barrel. Had me puzzled as I was using the same powder charge and same bullets as before. I opened the second box and loaded some of hem and the problem disappeared. Evidently there was a problem with the first box, it happens.

I am just glad you got it worked out.
Click to expand...

I don't think Oregon Trail publishes their hardness (I could be wrong about that)...but from all I have read, they are harder than 18 BHN (I've read as high as 24). Luckily, I know my loads will work with softer lead, so I can get back to what I know, and leave these ultra-hard bullets for those who have figured it out.

I appreciate all your suggestions...made me think carefully about what I was trying to do.
 
You have me. That is terrible leading and you are getting lube to the barrel end from the crown star you are showing.

I would just use softer bullets or relegate it to jacketeds.
 
I'm sure glad I'm not the only one with this leading problem and mine spans over several guns except for one. My .327 fed mag loves my lead alloy but I have around 100lbs of alloy for one pistol. 32 caliber at that so that 100lbs of alloy will definitely last me the rest of my life and then some.

Peter, I see the lube on the muzzle crown but I've heard the term "lube streaks" also, what do they look like as opposed to the lead streaks, Jlr2257s barrels look something like mine after about 100 rounds of hard cast lead bullets. That's why I quit using them and went to plated.

My .327 is clean after about 100 rounds but those bullets are .002"over bore size instead of the general .001"over. I use alox tumble lube and Lee mold, I always figured the .002"over bore size was why I didn't get leading it that particular gun with the WW alloy I use.

I know JLR2257 is using MBC hard cast, and I have the same problem right down the line with MBC, but would a softer bullet that would be, say, .002" over help stop this leading problem more completely in his and my guns alike? Or could it make it worse. I know JLR2257 apparently doesn't cast but I always been curious about this since my .327 fed mag doesn't lead at all. (I'm using midrange loads in it).
 
I am late to the "party" but shoot a lot of MBC bullets I have no problem with the 44 Mag bullets.

In the 357 Mag 158 gr I prefer the 12 BHN rather than the 18 BHN. Even with near max loads. I would rather have a little softer obturate than the hard ones not.

Same reason I do not like the 45 ACP Soft Ball made out of the same 18 BHN alloy. I special order the 12 BHN. No reason for the 18 BHN in a 45 ACP. I discussed it with Brad and he says he makes them that way as folks want hard cast for the 45 so that's what he makes .
 
Have you confirmed the harness of the bullet that's causing all this leading problem? If these happen to be very soft <8BHN it will cause leading no matter what you do. With very soft lead it's only good for muzzle loaders and shotgun slugs.
 
OP wrote in part: The bullets will pass thru each cylinder with mild pressure, and are coming out the same size as they went in.
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I want FMJ to pass through cylinder throats without much coaxing, but the lead must require some tapping with possibly some shaving. Other wise I get the throats reamed. Of course, I use a bullet that I have measured as a good size representative.

Almost every revolver I have had tight throats for use with lead. Yours sound like they are oversized. The possibility offered that the gun may have to be reserved for FMJ may be the route to take.

You have measured the bore but I don't think you mentioned measuring the throats. Might want to check that.
 
By the way, if anyone wants to drive the sizing ring from their 357 Lee FCD, I found that a standard (not thick-walled) 7mm deep-well sockets fits that sweet spot. There is a shoulder just above the carbide ring that is slightly larger in diameter than the ID of the carbide ring, so you have to get a punch that is just the right diameter. Takes a few good whacks too...I did it right in the press.

I'm not advocating anyone do this, or suggesting it will fix my problem, but I'm gonna try it. I loaded a few w/out the FCD, using the seating die to crimp, and that works, but it's a PITA sometimes, especially with mixed brass, etc.

I'll report here if the sizing ring removal has any effect on the leading. While the bullets I measured did not seem to be getting swaged by the ring, I have noticed that the ring bumps the cartridge when loading lead, and never does with plated or jacketed, so it may be having an effect, especially with the thicker Starline brass...we shall see.
 
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an be added to any bullet with a simple tool.
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Meh- not exactly simple if they don't have a GC shank. And the results can be so-so at best.

If you have the sizer that buts GC's on normal base bullets- thats awesome, but its not simple, nor cheap.

If you have something new I don't know about- please share it... I have access to about 40k really cheap bullets that need a GC, and I'd be happy to have a way to utilize them faster.
 
He doesn't seem to offer them in .430, sadly :(

If you shot 35 or 40 calibers, that might not be a bad way to go if you couldn't get the lead to work right.
 
Just to close the books on this one, here's what happened with the loads I made w/out the sizing ring in the FCD:

14gr 2400, 158gr SWC - Oregon Trail - HEAVY LEADING

20gr 2400, 240gr SWC - MBC - Mild Leading
10.5gr Unique, 240gr SWC - MBC - Mild Leading
20gr 4227, 240gr SWC - MBC - Very Little Leading

I used a bore brush w/choreboy to de-lead the barrel between each test.

So, it appears that the FCD sizing ring was not swaging the 357 bullets, but may have been sizing the 44 bullets somewhat. The leading was significantly less severe with the latest 44 reloads. I'm still puzzled by the 357 leading, but I don't have anymore energy (or patience) for it, so I'm definitely going back to softer lead.

Thanks to everyone who made suggestions.
 
I wonder if the bullets are much harder than the rating and totally failing to obturate. Could be a fault in the alloy blend.
 
Hate to revive this dead skunk, but I found a solution to my 44 mag leading. I just happened to have some .432" diameter RNFP bullets from MBC, of the same hardness, that I'd bought for a Marlin 1894. I was taking the rifle to the range today and thought I'd try the .432 bullets in the Redhawk just for the hell of it...based on my earlier measurements, these bullets would be 2 to 3 thousandths oversize.

They worked like a charm :what:. No leading whatsoever after 50 rounds. I guess .001 oversize just doesn't cut it with some barrels...

Learned something new, which is hard to do at my age...

Now if I can just find some 0.359"-0.360" diameter 158 grain bullets for my 357's
 
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