jcwit
member
David, please go back to post #8 and see what I actually suggested to the OP.
In fact, here it is, please note the first sentence.
In fact, here it is, please note the first sentence.
Lee Loader!
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David Wile
Member
Hey JC,
I know what you said, and I hope you did not take my comments as anything bad. I was only teasing you since I really did hate the Lee Loader, and I have always found your comments to be very good advice. My intent was to actually compliment you and your contributions while relating my age old frustrations with the loader. I sure did not want to give offense to anyone who may have been a neighbor of Herb Shriner.
Best wishes,
Dave Wile
I know what you said, and I hope you did not take my comments as anything bad. I was only teasing you since I really did hate the Lee Loader, and I have always found your comments to be very good advice. My intent was to actually compliment you and your contributions while relating my age old frustrations with the loader. I sure did not want to give offense to anyone who may have been a neighbor of Herb Shriner.
Best wishes,
Dave Wile
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jcwit
member
Well there we are again. If we were talking in person and seeing each others expressions things would take on a whole different outlook.
Best to you also, and may all the rounds take the x out
jcwit
Best to you also, and may all the rounds take the x out
jcwit
LordDunsany
Member
I started out in my teens with a Lee Loader in 45ACP, then got one for .38 Special, and followed up with one for my Marlin 30.30.
Yes, it was slow... but, I was able to create excellent and accurate ammuntion. I used the recommended loadings on the datasheet and never had a problem with accuracy at the range or in the field. Thos loads accounted for a lot of small game and dead tin cans.
Nowadays I have multiple presses, digital scales, powder measures etc, and can load much more rapidly. But at my place in the woods I still have an ammo can with powder, bullets, primers and several Lee Loaders. I can always depend on them to work, and for making hunting ammo in the field they can't be beat. How many folks can have a full reloading setup in an ammo can?
If the OP lives in an apartment or travels a lot, the Lee Loader or maybe the Lee Hand Press might be just the ticket.
Don't knock the old whack-a-mole - sometimes it's all a guy can afford, and it does work quite well. I have about a dozen of them now, and stil use them often. I do suggest getting a hand primer though. It is easier to seat primers evenly when using one.
Ron in Texas, a throwback to simpler times
Yes, it was slow... but, I was able to create excellent and accurate ammuntion. I used the recommended loadings on the datasheet and never had a problem with accuracy at the range or in the field. Thos loads accounted for a lot of small game and dead tin cans.
Nowadays I have multiple presses, digital scales, powder measures etc, and can load much more rapidly. But at my place in the woods I still have an ammo can with powder, bullets, primers and several Lee Loaders. I can always depend on them to work, and for making hunting ammo in the field they can't be beat. How many folks can have a full reloading setup in an ammo can?
If the OP lives in an apartment or travels a lot, the Lee Loader or maybe the Lee Hand Press might be just the ticket.
Don't knock the old whack-a-mole - sometimes it's all a guy can afford, and it does work quite well. I have about a dozen of them now, and stil use them often. I do suggest getting a hand primer though. It is easier to seat primers evenly when using one.
Ron in Texas, a throwback to simpler times
FROGO207
Member
jcwit I agree that you can load with the Lee loader as fast as I can with a press. But I for the life of me can not do it as fast by a long shot. I still do it on occasion so that if I HAVE to I will still be able to do it by memory. They make great ammo, no question about that either but I still like my turret better.
I still do it on occasion so that if I HAVE to I will still be able to do it by memory. They make great ammo, no question about that either but I still like my turret better.jcwit
member
I agree FROGO207 other than I do not use a turrent. I've got a couple but I use 2 single stages mounted side by side and load by the batch. Priming is done with a hand primer. Why do I do it this way, only answer I have is its how I like to do it.
I do take my Lee Loader with me when going to the range and working up a load. Everything fits into one of those 12 inch canvas tool bags. I also have a set of .223 Lee Loader that I use the same as one would usually use a set of L.E. Wilson dies using a Sinclair Arbor Press, no mallet required.
Hope this explaines
Best
I do take my Lee Loader with me when going to the range and working up a load. Everything fits into one of those 12 inch canvas tool bags. I also have a set of .223 Lee Loader that I use the same as one would usually use a set of L.E. Wilson dies using a Sinclair Arbor Press, no mallet required.
Hope this explaines
Best
DonP
Member
OK, I may be nuts but ...
I've got a fully set up bench with a couple of different presses, pretty much all the dies I need, a Lyman DPSIII electronic scale and powder dispenser ... and I still use my Lee Loaders now and then.
I use it mainly for 30.06 with a small digital scale I picked up at Cabela's on sale and digital calipers just to check OAL. It's just a lot of fun to handload with it at the kitchen table with just the loader and a mallet from the hardware store.
I can take time to sort and match bullet weights to the .01 grain, check my powder charges the same way and get as close to identical rounds as a human is capable of producing. No hurry about it, just taking some time to slow down and make them as consistent as I can.
I just like the idea of producing something with my own hands with simple tools, then testing it on the range to see how consistent they are. (Answer, pretty darn good for groups out of my Savage Axis at 100 yards!)
I've got a fully set up bench with a couple of different presses, pretty much all the dies I need, a Lyman DPSIII electronic scale and powder dispenser ... and I still use my Lee Loaders now and then.
I use it mainly for 30.06 with a small digital scale I picked up at Cabela's on sale and digital calipers just to check OAL. It's just a lot of fun to handload with it at the kitchen table with just the loader and a mallet from the hardware store.
I can take time to sort and match bullet weights to the .01 grain, check my powder charges the same way and get as close to identical rounds as a human is capable of producing. No hurry about it, just taking some time to slow down and make them as consistent as I can.
I just like the idea of producing something with my own hands with simple tools, then testing it on the range to see how consistent they are. (Answer, pretty darn good for groups out of my Savage Axis at 100 yards!)
That video was a trip down memory lane! In 1978 I bought a Remington 700 VS in .25-06. Wasn't long till I tried reloading, and that's when I got involved with the Lee Loader.
They work as I used it for 2 years. The only thing I did different was use a friend's scale as I just didn't like the idea of guessing.
The Lee Loader worked for 2 years till I finally decided to buy a press. In fact, I still have the Lee Loader sitting with my dies.
They work as I used it for 2 years. The only thing I did different was use a friend's scale as I just didn't like the idea of guessing.
The Lee Loader worked for 2 years till I finally decided to buy a press. In fact, I still have the Lee Loader sitting with my dies.
FROGO207
Member
IIRC I have a stack of 17 Lee loaders setting next to the rest of my dies. Can't beat them with a stick--Have to use a wooden mallet however. Sometimes the simplest things are the best I find.
Can't beat them with a stick--Have to use a wooden mallet however. Sometimes the simplest things are the best I find.
Makes ammo good enough to kill deer/hog/coyote/elk at 75 yards. You'd probably get 4" to 5" groups @ 100 yards. Good enough to hit the lungs of any of those animals @ the range I mentioned.
Although I think I have heard the best 1000 yard target was shot with round from a Lee Loader.
Although I think I have heard the best 1000 yard target was shot with round from a Lee Loader.
jcwit
member
Whoa there. I use a Lee Loader to reload .223 cartridges which I shoot from the bench at 100 yds using a Remington 700 VLS. I regularly shoot 5 round groups measuring .325 to .450 over all, much smaller that 4 to 5 inch groups. If my groups are over .500 its obvious my sugar is WAY out of whack.
With that noted, remember its much easier shooting for group than shooting for score.
I am a fair shooter, and if you just scoop and dump you are not going to get .3xx" groups. Also the caliber is thurdy thurdy. Possibly a lever gun. So you are talking apples to oranges bringing up the Rem 700. I doubt you are crimping, and you are possibly weighing your charges it sounds.
I have the lee loader for 30/30. I am speaking with experience. I also use a set of lee scoops, and the are virtually impossible to get better than a +/- 2 grain speads per dip, and that is by carefully dipping and leveling the top, and you also get an inconsistant crimp. Also the scoops are abot 2 to 3 grains light per given powder recipe my guess is for safety
You are def not the norm, and please post a video of your loading technique with the shots fired along with tje targets unedited. I'd love to see your range experience with the lee loader.
I have the lee loader for 30/30. I am speaking with experience. I also use a set of lee scoops, and the are virtually impossible to get better than a +/- 2 grain speads per dip, and that is by carefully dipping and leveling the top, and you also get an inconsistant crimp. Also the scoops are abot 2 to 3 grains light per given powder recipe my guess is for safety
You are def not the norm, and please post a video of your loading technique with the shots fired along with tje targets unedited. I'd love to see your range experience with the lee loader.
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NeuseRvrRat
Member
uh oh, jcwit has been called out. what will his next move be? 
Not rudely. I respect jcwit. I would just like to see his methods. Because the way it sounds we could all learn from this. I love my lee loader, and maybe 4 to 5 inches was exagerated. Make that 2.5 to 4inches with the lever gun and a lee loader at 75 yards.
jcwit
member
Using the Lee Loader as I do is with a Sinclair Arbor press and no mallet. Priming can be done either with the arbor press or with a hand primer, when using the hand primer I use the K & M brand and 1 primer at a time. Powder IN NOT WEIGHED, but dropped with a Lee Powder measure, no I do not dip but would be more than happy using that method if I ever took the time to dip a 22 1/2 grain charge of 2015, just never have taken the time to come up with a dipper for that amount. No I am not crimping
That pretty much covers it. As far as pictures, dream on, I'm old and managed once to figure how to post pictures on a shaving forum showing a collector Gillete razor I burchased, that was almost a year ago and I had the help of the grandkid.
As far as the size of the groups I guess you'll either have to take my word for it or call me a liar, your pick I guess.
You are also correct regarding the Winchester 94, short barrel, no scope, not an action for bench rest shooting, ect., ect., also mine is a 32 Winchester Special, but still the same as the 30/30 except for the slightly larger caliber and difference in the rifling twist. So 2 1/2 inch would be more than acceptable.
Called Out! Makes me no difference, I've nothing to hide and I think I explained my methods pretty well even tho I can't do the picture bit.
Best
That pretty much covers it. As far as pictures, dream on, I'm old and managed once to figure how to post pictures on a shaving forum showing a collector Gillete razor I burchased, that was almost a year ago and I had the help of the grandkid.
As far as the size of the groups I guess you'll either have to take my word for it or call me a liar, your pick I guess.
You are also correct regarding the Winchester 94, short barrel, no scope, not an action for bench rest shooting, ect., ect., also mine is a 32 Winchester Special, but still the same as the 30/30 except for the slightly larger caliber and difference in the rifling twist. So 2 1/2 inch would be more than acceptable.
Called Out! Makes me no difference, I've nothing to hide and I think I explained my methods pretty well even tho I can't do the picture bit.
Best
All now, jcwit. You know I wouldn't call you out with a tone, or call you a liar.
I was merely saying that your use of the Lee Loader had to differ from the directions that come with it, and you cleared that up by telling us you use an Arbor press and powder measure. What I don't get is how you drop the 22.5 grains, but do not weigh it to set it, but that might be taken with a tone, but isn't sent with one.
I can say that with my 336 using a single stage/rcbs dies/h4895/win lr primer/win brass and a 150 grain win pp or a 125 grain sierra fnhp (I have different loads for each bullet, but all other components are the same) I can shoot the 150s into 1.25" consistently with my 336, and get lucky with a .5 to 1" group sometimes. With the 125 grain HPFNs, I can shoot about the same, but if it's windy make that a 1.5" group consistently with my 30-30 that I have now.
Using the Lee Loader at the bench with a plastic mallet using the directions. 2.5" to 4" groups are the norm @ 75 yards. This is using what is CC/grain dippers, and on the chrony there is a huge difference in velocity compared to what is weighed/dropped to what the dippers shoot.
I mainly use my set of dippers to get me close in the Lyman 500, and then trickle to the desired weight. I am not rich, and cannot afford the RCBS Chargemaster COMBO just yet.
Thanks for the reply. I hope you didn't take my words as calling you a liar. That wouldn't be very High Road. I really wanted to see you load and shoot those groups. I wanted to learn something.
Have a good day tomorrow, jcwit.
I was merely saying that your use of the Lee Loader had to differ from the directions that come with it, and you cleared that up by telling us you use an Arbor press and powder measure. What I don't get is how you drop the 22.5 grains, but do not weigh it to set it, but that might be taken with a tone, but isn't sent with one.
I can say that with my 336 using a single stage/rcbs dies/h4895/win lr primer/win brass and a 150 grain win pp or a 125 grain sierra fnhp (I have different loads for each bullet, but all other components are the same) I can shoot the 150s into 1.25" consistently with my 336, and get lucky with a .5 to 1" group sometimes. With the 125 grain HPFNs, I can shoot about the same, but if it's windy make that a 1.5" group consistently with my 30-30 that I have now.
Using the Lee Loader at the bench with a plastic mallet using the directions. 2.5" to 4" groups are the norm @ 75 yards. This is using what is CC/grain dippers, and on the chrony there is a huge difference in velocity compared to what is weighed/dropped to what the dippers shoot.
I mainly use my set of dippers to get me close in the Lyman 500, and then trickle to the desired weight. I am not rich, and cannot afford the RCBS Chargemaster COMBO just yet.
Thanks for the reply. I hope you didn't take my words as calling you a liar. That wouldn't be very High Road. I really wanted to see you load and shoot those groups. I wanted to learn something.
Have a good day tomorrow, jcwit.
P-32
Member
My memory of a Lee loader was the guy living next door to me in the barracks had one. I would hear tap, tap, tap, tap, tap, POW! I would yell out asking if he was OK. He would yell back YEAH. Then tap, tap, tap, etc, etc POW! Are you OK? Yeah; Tap , tap, tap, tap, etc, etc He was loading for a M-1 carbine which would eat through his ammo quickly.
ChefJeff1
Member
I think they're great for fooling around. I think you'll graduate to a full press set up once you get addicted to reloading.
The lee loader is fun to use!
The lee loader is fun to use!
Winchester101
Member
Not to stir the pot about accuracy of ammo loaded with a Lee loader. I've found the ones that I have used give up little if anything to press mounted dies, other than speed and convienence.
As far as the scoops not providing accurate powder charges, as with a lot of thing reloading related, it's all in the technique. After a bit of practice, when I pay close attention to what I'm doing I can get powder charges that vary no more than +/- .3grs for a total spread of .6grs. Usually I can get a lot better than that.
They key seems to be to dip the scoop into the powder bottom first, allowing the poder to flow up the sides and over the top of the scoop, filling the scoop. Then I pull the heaping scoop out of the powder and scrape it level with a business card etc. The result is very consistent powder charges. I didn't invent this technique, I read it somewhere years ago, might have been from Dean Grennel (sp).
Bottom line, if a gun will only shoot 3" groups with ammo I load on a Lee loader, I tend to blame the gun or the nut behind the buttplate. Not the ammo or the powder charges.
Just my personal experience, your results may vary.
W101
As far as the scoops not providing accurate powder charges, as with a lot of thing reloading related, it's all in the technique. After a bit of practice, when I pay close attention to what I'm doing I can get powder charges that vary no more than +/- .3grs for a total spread of .6grs. Usually I can get a lot better than that.
They key seems to be to dip the scoop into the powder bottom first, allowing the poder to flow up the sides and over the top of the scoop, filling the scoop. Then I pull the heaping scoop out of the powder and scrape it level with a business card etc. The result is very consistent powder charges. I didn't invent this technique, I read it somewhere years ago, might have been from Dean Grennel (sp).
Bottom line, if a gun will only shoot 3" groups with ammo I load on a Lee loader, I tend to blame the gun or the nut behind the buttplate. Not the ammo or the powder charges.
Just my personal experience, your results may vary.
W101
jmstevens2
Member
All I can say is, WOW.
I have 2 of the Lee Loaders and 9 calibers of dies with 3 presses, Not counting the 2 MEC's for this discussion. The Lee Loaders work just fine and are great for taking to the range to work up a load.
However, I later thought about it and instead of having double the dies (a Lee loader and a set of dies for a press) I just combined the two and got a Lee Hand Press. Same portability and it used standard dies allowing crimping and full length resizing.
The lee loader is great, but if you think that you may eventually move to a press, you would avoid spending twice much this way. Either works just fine though.
http://www.google.com/products/cata...a=X&ei=60kXT7nTKari0QGvld2LAw&ved=0CH4Q8gIwAA
I have 2 of the Lee Loaders and 9 calibers of dies with 3 presses, Not counting the 2 MEC's for this discussion. The Lee Loaders work just fine and are great for taking to the range to work up a load.
However, I later thought about it and instead of having double the dies (a Lee loader and a set of dies for a press) I just combined the two and got a Lee Hand Press. Same portability and it used standard dies allowing crimping and full length resizing.
The lee loader is great, but if you think that you may eventually move to a press, you would avoid spending twice much this way. Either works just fine though.
http://www.google.com/products/cata...a=X&ei=60kXT7nTKari0QGvld2LAw&ved=0CH4Q8gIwAA
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