Let's Talk AR-15 Handguards/"Free Floating Rails"

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StrikeFire83

StrikeFire83

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Okay, so I'm a longtime pistol guy who recently bought my first rifle a few months ago...an AR-15 in the form of the Smith & Wesson M&P 15 Sport. After putting 300 rounds through it with the iron sights and becoming reasonably proficient, I've decided to add a new handguard/rail system, flip up sights, and a red dot. I've decided on the red-dot and the flip-ups, but I'm having trouble with the rail.

First off, sorry if I'm getting the lingo wrong. All if this is very new to me. I've heard them referred to as "handguards", Free Floating Rails, FFRs, etc. I'm talking about something like this:

http://www.laruetactical.com/larue-tactical-120-handguard-lt15-12

So I paid a local gunsmith to hack off the front sight blade/gas block (S&W mushroom-stamps the pins on the front sight for the M&P 15 Sport, so you can't just push them out with a punch) and install a gas block that was given to me by a friend. I've been told that Larue Tactical is top notch stuff, but my experience with pistols has taught me that there are several levels of quality and some are perfectly adequate without being overkill.

My Reqs
-12 inch
-rails on the top and bottom (side rails might be a nice bonus, but I don't see myself using them right now)
-maybe some other stuff that I don't know I need :D

Anyhow, do I NEED a $300 rail to get what I want? Is there something in the $150 range that would do just fine? Any thoughts and suggestions will be welcome!
 
Anyhow, do I NEED a $300 rail to get what I want? Is there something in the $150 range that would do just fine? Any thoughts and suggestions will be welcome!
Click to expand...
Short Answer: Yes, there are some $160-$200 FF rails that are very good.

The least expensive brand I can recommend is Yankee Hill Machine, and they'll get you close to your $150 price point if you shop around. I have no direct experience with LaRue. I do own Troy & Daniel Defense products. The Troy rails can be found for under $200 if you shop around as well, and I'd spend a few more $ for Troy over YHM to get a lighter rail. The Troy products are lighter than, and just as sturdy as YHM. They're well worth the extra $20-$30. Daniel Defense will cost more, but you get a very light, very strong, very sturdy rail system for that increased price. I'd check LaRue's rail weight vs. DD's rail weight. DD also does little things like scalloping the rail edges to reduce the chance of them cutting your hand, and adding value by including ladder style covers with their rails. If the little extras are worth the extra cost is a user preference thing.

My Reqs
-12 inch
-rails on the top and bottom (side rails might be a nice bonus, but I don't see myself using them right now)
-maybe some other stuff that I don't know I need
Click to expand...
Have you looked at full length top rail tubes that are otherwise slick, and have sections of rail that you put on only where needed?
Troy - http://troyind.com/battlerails/trx-battlerails
DD - https://danieldefense.com/rail-systems/modular-float-rail/modular-float-rail-12-0.html
YHM - http://yhm.net/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=4_50
JP - http://www.jprifles.com/1.4.4_hg.php
 
YHM makes good stuff. It is what I have on my AR and it is great. You don't necessarily "need" one, but they sure as heck come in handy.
 
Strikefire83, I just picked up that same rifle 2 weeks ago for $600 new and am also looking into rails and other accessories. My buddy has a bushmaster mid length piston drive free floater, and after shooting it, I just am not comfortable with the aluminum handgaurds. FIL has a Stag with a long alum handgaurd with rubber inserts. Don't like that setup either. I have a magpul handgaurd and rear grip on the way from brownells just to spiff it up a bit and make it mine. I like the fact that different sized rails can be added at 10 2 and 6 o'clock. Granted they're polymer mounts, but they should work fine for laser/flashlight. I like iron sights and don't want to remove them. Maybe I'll change the back one out for a flip-up style though or a carry handle type.
 
One advantage of the YHM over the LaRue is that the YHM doesn't leave a gap between the upper receiver rail and the forearm rail.
 
It doesn't have everything you're looking for, namely, it's missing the rails on the bottom, but you might take a look at the Troy Industries Alpha Battle Rail. It has an integrated flip-up front sight which should work with most of the available aftermarket rear sights.

I had a chance to handle one of these at SHOT, and it left a lasting positive impression.

Other than that, I've got quite a bit of experience with the JP/VTAC Modular Float Tube. It works extremely well, is very lightweight, and is quite minimalistic.

Basically, the slots in the float tube are cut so that you can attach pieces of rail wherever you like, which allows you to keep weight to a minimum.
 
I'd go with the 12-13" Larue rails for 14.5-16" carbines, and the 14" Daniel Defense Lite rail for 18-20" rifles. I'd recommend the 13.25" Larue rail for your 16" carbine if your a bit taller like me.

and Magpul XTM covers.

You could have reused that pinned front sight gas block instead of installing a new one. FYI for others: ADCO cuts down front sights for Larue or DD rails. That way you can have a nice pinned gas block insead of a bolt on. But a properly installed bolt on is fine, I just like pins.

You might have to grind that new gas block down a little to fit under Larue or DD RIS rails. It's can be a tight fit in there sometimes.
 
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I have the carbine length of that YHM rail. You'll like it a lot. It is a bit hard to see under the covers, but this is how it will look on the rifle.

p452784557-4.jpg
 
Damn, now I'm looking at the plane jane Troy Battle Rail TRX Standard 11" rail. It's $185 and has four rails all the way around, it's close enough to 12 inches, excellent reviews.

http://troyind.com/%20/battlerails/troy-battlerail-trx-standard-11

I can understand the weight arguments as to why people go with customizable rail sections, but even if I end up running through the jungle with this thing (unlikely) no matter what rail I pick my AR's going to be WAAAAAAY lighter than my Dad's wooden-stock 30.06 I sometimes hunt with.

Also, while side-mounted stuff like flashlights and and lasers seem stupid to me now, maybe I'll want to stick something on the side rail later on and that way it'll be there waiting for me, and I won't have to pull the whole handguard off and buy/attach extra rail sections.

Damn, the AR platform is SOOOOOO customizable, I've been reading about it and watching YouTube videos for a few days and it's amazing how many choices there are!!!
 
Well, I got hooked on the KAC stuff in the army. It works VERY well. The non-FF stuff is rugged and locks down very tight, it doesn't move. I've seen what these can handle, and used and still use them myself, so I have no problem recommending them.

Then I have a couple of their rifle length FF rails. One on a Beowulf, one on a Grendel. They enable superb groups, the barrel nut goes on tight, and the way the rail attaches, it doesn't move or come off like others can. No screws or bolts, and the whole rail tube is one piece. Lightweight and rugged, they are also milspec --not all rails are built the same, and some won't let you use certain gear.

The KAC stuff is military grade stuff. If you are gonna pay $300 or so for a rail system, give these a good hard look. Their grips, mounts, etc., are also all good stuff, and can be found at surplus stores.

I got my recent FF rifle length tube from Del-Ton.

I'm building a .300BLK soon, whenever Satern gets my barrel done, and I'll use another KAC rail on that too.
 
StrikeFire83 said:
Also, while side-mounted stuff like flashlights and and lasers seem stupid to me now, maybe I'll want to stick something on the side rail later on and that way it'll be there waiting for me, and I won't have to pull the whole handguard off and buy/attach extra rail sections.

Damn, the AR platform is SOOOOOO customizable, I've been reading about it and watching YouTube videos for a few days and it's amazing how many choices there are!!!
Click to expand...

That's why I try to keep everything that isn't a grip panel or handstop on a Larue quick release mount. I don't allways want my flashlight and laser mounted up during a daytime training session or competition.

I start off with them there so I'm used to them being there, but when I get tired I pop them off. I may even drop my optic to go lazy light.
 
Troy and Midwest industries sell what you need, you certainly don't need to spend more than $175 for a good handguard of this type. Get a Midwest Industries SS-12, I run it and it's excellent. great lock-up, great looks, feels good in hand, modular, light, etc. It's a winner.
You said you didn't want to take it apart to add/remove rail segments, but if you're going to mount a light (which for any rifle that may be used defensively, I believe is a must) you can get an offset mount to the side. and removing/adding rail segments without handguard removal isn't difficult with the MI handguard mentioned above. You just slide the nut along the inside of the rail with a Popsicle stick and put it into the appropriate mounting hole, then bolt it together. Also, the only tool that you need to put this together is a good armorer's wrench (DPMS one works just fine) and the rest ships with it.
For the ultimate installation ease, you may want to look at the Troy alpha rail though. More expensive, but it goes on the stock barrel nut and requires no tools other than Allen keys to install. It has the integral front sight too, so you don't need to buy a front sight.
If I may inquire, what red dot have you chosen?
 
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Troy and Midwest industries sell what you need, you certainly don't need to spend more than $175 for a good handguard of this type. Get a Midwest Industries SS-12, I run it and it's excellent. great lock-up, great looks, feels good in hand, modular, light, etc. It's a winner.
You said you didn't want to take it apart to add/remove rail segments, but if you're going to mount a light (which for any rifle that may be used defensively, I believe is a must) you can get an offset mount to the side. and removing/adding rail segments without handguard removal isn't difficult with the MI handguard mentioned above. You just slide the nut along the inside of the rail with a Popsicle stick and put it into the appropriate mounting hole, then bolt it together. Also, the only tool that you need to put this together is a good armorer's wrench (DPMS one works just fine) and the rest ships with it.
For the ultimate installation ease, you may want to look at the Troy alpha rail though. More expensive, but it goes on the stock barrel nut and requires no tools other than Allen keys to install. It has the integral front sight too, so you don't need to buy a front sight.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I'm looking hard at Troy and I'll check out Midwest Industries now as well. Both of these seem to have better finishes than the Yankee Hill Machine examples, and for only about $15-$25 more. I plan to do the installations sands gunsmith, as I have a good friend who's been playing with ARs for a few years now and he has tons of tools.

If I may inquire, what red dot have you chosen?
Click to expand...

Of course you can! EoTech 517. I was agonizing between EoTech and Aimpoint but after shooting both this weekend on the aforementioned friend's ARs, I hit a lot better with the EoTech, so it made the choice a lot easier.

Also, I did not care for the "co-witness" with the fixed front sight blade, so as I mentioned in the original post, I'm paying a gunsmith to hack it off. :D
 
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There's a specific reason the DOD added a quad rail to the M4 - it wasn't there for quite a few years. It's called SOPMOD - all that optical and light emitting gear in the Barbie poster you can clamp on it. The Army has literally dozens of different NSN's issued to various units, and there's not only a lot of older generation units still in service, some need more than one type. It's not getting integrated into multifunction units as fast as it does on the civilian market. The product life cycle and acquisition takes a lot longer.

Basically, the Army had to compromise - they needed just one rail mounting to use in any unit with any issued gear - which means it's not efficient, light weight, or the best choice for any particular one shooter. They can do better for themselves.

Two major points to consider for the single shooter: Do you need 48" of rail, and will the free float deliver an effective increase in accuracy? KAC has already answered the first - they are in print saying most civilian shooters don't need a $300 quad rail.

Nonetheless, most rail users are in denial the quote and their recommendation exist.

In terms of cost effectiveness, that's one pricey light or grip mount. Many are switching to rail strips on lighter tubes, and dispensing with ounces of dead weight, ladder guards, and all the complication.

Does a free float offer more accuracy? Yes, but note I first mentioned this using the word "effective." The Army uses a military standard of 2MOA in combat, a ten inch circle at 500 yards. That's what is necessary to get a hit in the vital zone of a live target. They achieve it without freefloats or match ammo. It's our competitive drive that insists on tighter groups, to see how we rank against others.

The handguard is separated from the barrel to relieve it from external pressure pushing the muzzle around and changing the point of impact. That's the only purpose of freefloating. If iron sights are still in use, the front blade attached to the barrel then shoots to point of aim.

Move the front sight to a flipup on the tube, it's now subject to all the bending forces of hand pressure and slings, and it moves. Now the gun is inherently less accurate than it could be. 3 gun shooters do it anyway because the deviation is less than a sling mounted to the barrel. The effective accuracy is still improved. It's NOT the most optimum combination.

If it's a combat/duty shooter for home use, a plinker, or you're starting out in three gun, a quad rail free float won't give you your money's worth. The shooters skill levels need to be in the upper tier of competitors to see the incremental increase. A better barrel and handloaded ammo will deliver a bigger increase in accuracy than a free float alone.

All the precision shooters know this, it's funny to see action gunners learning fundamentals that are universal. Something about the AR15 being a "combat" gun tends to blur the discussion for some reason. Since my AR build was a hunting rifle, I just put rifle handguards on a custom nitrided barrel and let it be. It will shoot accurately enough to put down live game, and that's all it needs if action targets are on the range. Thats enough money saved to buy a turret press reloading kit - think about it. Five pieces of precision gear guaranteed to make ammo for half price, vs. one pricey expensive light mount.
 
I really like my Troy TRX battle rail. The weight and modularity are great. Another great feature is the notch that causes alignment with the upper receiver rails. I have a YH FF on another AR but found it impossible to get the top rail lined up with the upper receivers rail.

I've never run a MI but have handled them and they seem solid. Same for DD and Larue but those two are overpriced IMO. MI has a great price on a 10" FF in their clearance section right now as well.
 
I really like my Troy TRX battle rail. The weight and modularity are great. Another great feature is the notch that causes alignment with the upper receiver rails. I have a YH FF on another AR but found it impossible to get the top rail lined up with the upper receivers rail.

I've never run a MI but have handled them and they seem solid. Same for DD and Larue but those two are overpriced IMO. MI has a great price on a 10" FF in their clearance section right now as well.
Click to expand...

Many thanks! For those still interested, I actually pulled the trigger on the 10" Midwest Industries "Gen 1" handguard.

http://www.midwestindustriesinc.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_id=379

At $115 bucks SHIPPED, seemed like too good a deal to pass up. A bit shorter than my original 12" requirement, but I think it'll do very nicely.
 
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Quote:
Troy and Midwest industries sell what you need, you certainly don't need to spend more than $175 for a good handguard of this type. Get a Midwest Industries SS-12, I run it and it's excellent. great lock-up, great looks, feels good in hand, modular, light, etc. It's a winner.
You said you didn't want to take it apart to add/remove rail segments, but if you're going to mount a light (which for any rifle that may be used defensively, I believe is a must) you can get an offset mount to the side. and removing/adding rail segments without handguard removal isn't difficult with the MI handguard mentioned above. You just slide the nut along the inside of the rail with a Popsicle stick and put it into the appropriate mounting hole, then bolt it together. Also, the only tool that you need to put this together is a good armorer's wrench (DPMS one works just fine) and the rest ships with it.
For the ultimate installation ease, you may want to look at the Troy alpha rail though. More expensive, but it goes on the stock barrel nut and requires no tools other than Allen keys to install. It has the integral front sight too, so you don't need to buy a front sight.
Yeah, I'm looking hard at Troy and I'll check out Midwest Industries now as well. Both of these seem to have better finishes than the Yankee Hill Machine examples, and for only about $15-$25 more. I plan to do the installations sands gunsmith, as I have a good friend who's been playing with ARs for a few years now and he has tons of tools.

Quote:
If I may inquire, what red dot have you chosen?
Of course you can! EoTech 517. I was agonizing between EoTech and Aimpoint but after shooting both this weekend on the aforementioned friend's ARs, I hit a lot better with the EoTech, so it made the choice a lot easier.

Also, I did not care for the "co-witness" with the fixed front sight blade, so as I mentioned in the original post, I'm paying a gunsmith to hack it off.
Click to expand...

Excellent choice on the EOtech. I like them for the 1 MOA dot in the center, though the whole "buy batteries every once in a while, they're good and expensive" thing doesn't excite me too much, but I guess that's why I'm buying a 1-6x variable power, isn't it?
If Aimpoint made a 1MOA red dot sight, I'd be all over it, but they don't, of course.

Good luck with the AR!
 
^ I took a long hard look at the Aimpoints, but I didn't like the 2 MOA dot, and I HATED the long tube profile, which (FOR ME) cuts down on target acquisition speed. That, and the higher cost of the Aimpoints and the need to purchase a mount really had me ONLY looking at the Aimpoint PRO. In the end EOTech won the day.
 
good buy on the MI rail, cheap not overkill either. hope you enjoy it, i think you made a good decision, instead of a rail that costed half the price of the gun =p

have fun
 
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