Lever Action in 45LC

[Shung]

I don't know, but for historical reasons, I much prefer the 44-40 in my Uberti's, even if its a painfull cartridge to reload..

 

[barnetmill]

I believe that the .44/40 has a tapered case. Is this why it is hard to reload? Me I would go with the .44spl/magnum option if I were going to buy a pistol caliber carbine.

 

[Shung]

yeah, 44-40 is slightly "bottled" and after reloading, you sometimes need to integrally "reform" the whole cartridge to chamber it it the tighter guns..

but knowing its a 130+ years old historical cartridge make it a real pleasure to use.

Btw, you cannot choose both 38sp/357mag or 44sp/44mag in a 66 or 73 model.. because, the cartridge lenght is what makes it able to go from the tubular magazine to the elevator... If you chamber 38sp or 44sp in a 357mag or 44mag 1873, it will block the mechanism..

 

[barnetmill]

What about in the Winchester 92 and Marlin actions for dual use of spl and magnum length cartridges?

 

[batmann]

If you intend to shoot heavy .45 Colt loads, I would go with the Marlin. For one thing it has a shotgun butt vs a cresent butt as found on the Puma's and like. Shoot a cresent butt with a heavy load and you will feel the difference on your shoulder. Puma's action can be rough plus I like the fact Marlin is made in the USA, may not mean much to some people, but it does to me.

 

[gb6491]

If you go with a Marlin, be aware that it can (unless Marlin has decided to modify the part) develop the dreaded "Marlin Jam" They are very nice rifles. I had a an 1894 Cowboy that was an excellent shooter. My current 45 Colt lever gun is a slightly beat up, but slicked up Puma (no safety).

Regards,
Greg

 

[Ed Ames]

If you intend to shoot heavy .45 Colt loads, I would go with the Marlin. For one thing it has a shotgun butt vs a cresent butt as found on the Puma's and like.

Or you can go with the Puma .454 which also has the shotgun buttpad.

Mine (20" barrel) will hold 11+1 .45C or 10+1 .454 and doesn't seem to care which it is feeding... including feeding some shorter-than-normal (compression blackpowder) .45C loads I had sitting around without a glitch. Not sure if that's usual for the Puma .454 but I was impressed.

 

[MCgunner]

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. To me, the 73 looks porky, ugly, ungainly. The 92 is sleek, compact, purposeful. Of course, I never missed an episode of "The Rifleman" when I was a kid. "Mark" was about my age. Lucas McCain's gun was a .44-40, of course.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IX2oZ6Kv_qo



No, .45 Colt in the 92 doesn't have an extraction problem that I know of, not my son-in-law's gun, anyway.

Albeit with a plain jane stock finish and iron sights. And cheesy safety

No safety on mine, 25 years old. I replaced the cheesy sight with an aperture, click adjustable for those light .38s, and it's a ghost ring to boot. Love the sight, now. My stocks are Brazilian walnut and linseed oil rubbed finish. It might look "cheesy" if you're used to those glossy polymer finishes Remington puts on BDLs and 1100s, but it's THE classic finish of the period. Pretty plain wood, I'll admit, not much character to the grain, but the finish has classic beauty to me.

 

[MCgunner]

.38s function fine in my .357 magnum Rossi 92. It is very accurate with 'em, too. I load 2.3 grains bullseye behind a 105 cast SWC and get about 900 fps, 1.5" at 50 yard accuracy, and very pleasant, similar to shooting a .22, actually. Makes the .357 model very versatile, from shooting squirrel and small game to hunting hogs and deer to 100 yards with an ammo change and a sight elevation adjustment. Mine pushes 1900 fps with a 165 grain gas checked SWC using 16.8 grains of Lil' Gun. Pretty danged good if you ask me. It'll kill anything in THESE parts. I've taken a doe at 80 yards with mine, lung hit, went about 20 yards and collapsed.

 

[MCgunner]

Equal billing for the 73.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anHXdxcraRI

 

[Shung]

73 is THE lever action

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_N_k0mdsj4&feature=fvsr

 

[bad_aim_billy]

What's the general recoil from a carbine firing a hot .45 load? Similar to .30-30 I would assume? These handgun-caliber lever actions just look so versatile, I'm quite envious...

 

[DammitBoy]

I recently bought a 16" Puma/Rossi .454 in stainless and I already have a 20" Winchester 94 in 45 long colt.

Both are great guns and the Puma handles the .454 round very well - thank god for the nice thick buttpad.

I was pleasantly surprised with the fit and finish on the Rossi. Hate the safety though.

Anybody have any ideas on how to attach a sling for the Rossi? I'm thinking maybe a clamp for the front sling attachment? No place to screw in a swivel on the fore end...

 

[MCgunner]

What's the general recoil from a carbine firing a hot .45 load? Similar to .30-30 I would assume?

It ain't that bad even with hot "ruger only" handloads. Now, the .454 and .480 ruger models have a recoil pad for a reason. LOL Style is less important than comfort with those calibers, I reckon. .357 is positively sweet.

Anybody have any ideas on how to attach a sling for the Rossi? I'm thinking maybe a clamp for the front sling attachment? No place to screw in a swivel on the fore end...

If you flip back up to the pic of my gun, you might see, but I drilled and tapped the barrel band for a stud, wood screw stud in the butt stock. Turned out pretty danged decent and a sling is mandatory on a rifle I'm going to carry afield like I do the little Rossi. Hell, the thing is handier than carrying a X frame Smith, LOL!

*edit* Okay, here's the picture again. Sorry, it's a little fuzzy. I'm not a photographer by trade, obviously.

 

[MCgunner]

Oh, another thing, the .45 colt and .357 have the traditional tube magazine. The .480 and i think the .454 have a threaded plunger in the magazine that will screw out much as with a .22LR tube mag so you can dump the whole mag without having to jack each round out when unloading, a feature I really like and wish the .357 had. It'd be easier to unload when I got back to the truck.

 

[DammitBoy]

That front sling swivel looks factory mcgunner!

And you're right on the .454 - it is a threaded plunger that screws out.

 

[MCMXI]

If you go with a Marlin, be aware that it can (unless Marlin has decided to modify the part) develop the dreaded "Marlin Jam"

I looked at the fix in the link provided, and read that it only takes 50 rounds or so to cause the problem. I've put more than 200 rounds through mine at the range without a single feeding issue, and have cycled the action hundreds of times at home. I was expecting the worst, but when I removed the lever there was no damage to the underside of the carrier. I could see a bright line where the bluing had been worn a little, but a fine pick dragged along the carrier revealed nothing but a perfectly flat surface. I radiused the contact point on the lever anyway and ran a bunch of snap caps through without incident.

Pure unadulterated sacrilege.... damn safeties.

Easily fixed for under $20 with a safety delete screw from www.longhunt.com .

I drilled and tapped the barrel band for a stud, wood screw stud in the butt stock.

I did a similar thing except that I TIG welded a front stud to the front stock retaining band ... I added a wood screw swivel in the butt stock too. I have XS ghost rings sights on mine and it makes for a very effective hunting rifle out to about 100 yards.

What's the general recoil from a carbine firing a hot .45 load? Similar to .30-30 I would assume?

I've never shot a .30-30, but I do put hot .45 Colt loads through my Marlin ... 23.0gr of H110 with a 250gr lead bullet to be exact **. The recoil is absolutely nothing to worry about .... I'd put it at about half way between a typical AR in .223 and a typical bolt action in .308 due to the fact that the '94 is a light rifle with a 20" barrel. On a side note, I've noticed a decrease in accuracy at 23.0gr of H110 but I've found the Marlin to be quite accurate around 21.0gr to 22.0gr and a 250gr bullet so that's where I'll be staying. Those loads are fun to shoot in the Redhawk too.

As I understand it originally the .45LC was not used in lever guns due to the poor rim on the old balloon head cases. Are there ever any extraction problems with these guns when using modern .45LC ammunition?

Nope!! As I mentioned above, I've put a couple of hundred rounds through my '94 already without a single extraction, FTF or any other issue. By the way, I've had no extraction issues with my Redhawk either.

Me I would go with the .44spl/magnum option if I were going to buy a pistol caliber carbine.

Not me ... I decided to go the .45 Colt route with two single actions and one double action revolver to accompany my '94 in .45 Colt. I'm not a fan of the barrel twist rate that Marlin uses for the .44 Magnum (1:38). The 1:16 twist rate in the .45 Colt is ideal for heavy bullets such as 300gr or even 350gr. So for me, a Ruger Redhawk or Blackhawk and a Marlin '94, all in .45 Colt with 250gr, 300gr or 350gr bullets pushed along by a healthy amount of H110 make for a formidable combination.


** CAUTION: These loads are for Ruger Blackhawk, Redhwawk and new Marlin '94 firearms only. They are NOT safe in Colt or clones of Colt SAA revolvers!

 

[DammitBoy]

I agree 1858 - I have more rifles, pistols, and carbines that can fire the 45 long colt round than any other caliber.

I love my 5 1/2" Blackhawk in 45 long colt, it shoots like a dream.

 

[MCMXI]

I love my 5 1/2" Blackhawk in 45 long colt, it shoots like a dream.

I can understand that. I really enjoy my Redhawk in .45 Colt but I'm looking for THIS but want one without the internal (infernal) lock ... any ideas?

 

[MCgunner]

I bought a used, but great shape stainless Ruger 4 5/8" Blackhawk. I liked it so much, I had it engraved and put Sanbar stag grips on it and had my initials engraved on the bottom of the grip frame. It's uber accurate and I ain't sellin' it.

Here's a test on the .480 Ruger Rossi M92. Sounds like a cannon.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BQY/is_12_50/ai_n6275752/

Thanks, DammitBoy, it don't even look bad up close.

 

[gb6491]

...I was expecting the worst, but when I removed the lever there was no damage to the underside of the carrier. I could see a bright line where the bluing had been worn a little, but a fine pick dragged along the carrier revealed nothing but a perfectly flat surface...

That's good to hear My carrier had already been damaged some when I heard about the "jam". I smoothed it out when I modified the lever, but, before I got the right shape on the lever, a few test cycles would begin to mar it again. All was good after I got the lever shaped correctly. I wonder if Marlin has started making the carrier harder.
Regards,
Greg

 

[MCMXI]

I wonder if Marlin has started making the carrier harder.

I don't know if they have or not, but one caveat is that I installed a much lighter hammer spring and one-piece firing pin from www.longhunt.com very early on. I will confess that I'm not exactly sure of every contact/pivot point in the action, but since the lever indirectly cocks the hammer, if the force required to do that is cut in half (or less), it's possible that the lever would exert less force on the underside of the carrier. This is just a SAWG for now but it might explain the complete lack of significant wear to the underside of the carrier after more than 200 rounds fired and hundreds of cycles at home.

I bought a used, but great shape stainless Ruger 4 5/8" Blackhawk. I liked it so much, I had it engraved and put Sanbar stag grips on it and had my initials engraved on the bottom of the grip frame. It's uber accurate and I ain't sellin' it.

I'm still looking for one of those which rules out anything new from Ruger due to the internal lock, but in the meantime, I bought this NIB Blackhawk which meets my criteria of a single action, in .45 Colt and no internal lock .... plus it has an extra .45 ACP cylinder. I don't think these are manufactured any more so I had to jump at the chance to buy a NIB one. They sure are great-looking revolvers.

My apologies to the OP for taking this thread off topic a little.