Lever Guns: 1873 vs 1892

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Jim Watson said:
Is the Uberti copy of the Colt Burgess lever action still in production?
How does it compare with Winchester and Marlin of the 1880s?
Click to expand...

I just checked the Uberti website and it does not show the Colt Burgess replica.

However Dixie Gunworks is showing one with a 20" barrel chambered for 44-40 and made by Uberti.

Go figure.

Sorry, I have no experience with the Burgess.

However Ian McCollum does.

https://www.forgottenweapons.com/colt-burgess-1883-carbine-at-ria/
 
Jim Watson said:
And the gun department of A&F included Griffin & Howe.

Is the Uberti copy of the Colt Burgess lever action still in production?
How does it compare with Winchester and Marlin of the 1880s?
Click to expand...

About 2015 I bought Dixie Gun Works' Colt Burgess 1883 carbine in .44-40. It's probably most similar to the Winchester 1873 (it was intended to compete with the '73) except that the receiver is shorter, more compact. The barrel & magazine are pretty much the same, as is the buttstock & forend. It's very light and pointable; in some ways it is better than the Winchester. The Winchester, with the side plates, is easier to work on and disassemble.

The Burgess is odd in the loading port slides forward on a springload. The rear of the cover has a "lip" that enables you to push it with the front of the round, or finger. The carrier is an odd sort of split cradle that pivots on the same screw as the lever uses. The "split" at the bottom of the carrier is for a finger-like projection which came up just behind the carrier and this holds the next cartridge in the magazine so it doesn't pop back into the action.

The extractor is not unlike the Winchester 1873, or any other lever-action for that matter, but the ejector is unique. It is a spring-loaded collar that encircles the firing pin, and if you don't look closely you might think the firing pin is stuck forward. It's a unique design, I think, but it works just as well as any other design.

I'll post a photo of a disassembled one. Not mine, but it shows well the toggle link parts.
 

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I’d suggest being quite honest with yourself about what you’re looking for in a lever gun.

“Heritage” wise, the Winchester name and reputation were basically built on the 1866/1873, 1892, and the 1894 .30-30. The 1886 and 1895 are probably the technical apex of the line (fulfilling the quest for a full power repeating rifle) but didn’t see as much widespread use as the “just right” 94, or the older generation of “just barely enough” .44-40 and .38-40 guns (1873 & 1892.)

The toggle lock guns are pretty, and iconic, and also easier by far to clean and work on, especially if you shoot black powder. They’re also generally faster and slicker for competition. Because they’re heavier they’re also mild shooters which makes them a lot of fun.

The 92 is probably the “better” gun, especially for modern magnum chamberings. I’d buy a Rossi 92 to actually use and carry as a truck gun. I’d buy an 1873 to have fun at the range, fondle, and use if circumstances warranted it. I elected to go for the 1873 in .44-40, the original chambering. One day I’ll probably pick up a Rossi but I can never find one when I have $500-600 burning a hole in my pocket.
 
My pistol caliber leveraction carbine is a 1892 Puma made by Rossi for Legacy in .357 Magnum (twelve round capacity). It shoots most .38 Special cartridges with bullets with noses (and shoots .38 wadcutters and .38 shotshells as a single shot). I am pleased with it, probably would not buy a Winchester 1873. The 1892 design is supposed to be stronger than the Winchester 73 pistol caliber carbine and even the Winchester 94 rifle caliber carbine.

That said, everyone I've heard with experience with the Winchester 1873 says it feeds a lot smoother on repeat shots than any Winchester 1892 or any Marlin 1894 pistol caliber carbine. The 1873 has a super controlled cartridge feed system. (As long as you don't slip a .44-40 cartridge in a .38-40 Winchester 73, snark snark.)
 
Lots of great information here. I can only report that I picked up one of the new Rossi 92 carbines, stainless in .357 made by the new manufacturer CBC (aka Magtech, etc.). Still haven't shot it all that much yet but it seems very nicely put together. Good fit and finish, not rattly or cheap feeling at all. I was looking for a blued Marlin in .44 but was taken with the Rossi and not regretting it so far.
 
As someone above has noted, if shooting black powder, the 1873 is somewhat easier to clean than the 1892. JMB (Peace Be Upon Him) was a man ahead of his time at least inasmuch as he seems to have utterly disregarded cleaning black powder residue in his designs :p

The Marlin 1894, by comparison, is quite easy to clean.
 
The last climbing video I made one of the videographers was from northern Utah and is the great grandson of John Moses Browning.

Anyway my latest lever gun is a stainless Marlin with composite furniture chambered in .357 mag. It too is not rattly. It has a very solid feel to it and I suspect it can handle some pretty hot loads.
 
I just went through the same decision process and went for a Cowboy 45 Colt Rossi. 24” Octagon barrel and crescent butt plate. It looks almost as good as an 1873. I traded a 20” 357 Rossi for it just because I wanted 45 Colt. The 357 Rossi is a fine accurate rifle. 660719E1-02E5-4E45-A7E8-6F486D8E0321.jpeg
 
DocRock said:
As someone above has noted, if shooting black powder, the 1873 is somewhat easier to clean than the 1892.
Click to expand...

Howdy Again

I can agree with that. I would go so far as to say cleaning the 1873 is a lot easier than cleaning the 1892. When shooting Black Powder in the 1873 Winchester, if one is not using a WCF cartridge, such as 44-40 or 38-40, which seal the chamber better than the thicker brass of cartridges such as 45 Colt, all one has to do to clean the mechanism is remove the side plates with one screw. The entire mechanism is then accessible for cleaning. That can be seen in the photos I posted earlier.

A lot more has to be taken apart to completely access the mechanism of the 1892.

To be completely honest it has been a long, long time since I took one of my 1892 Winchesters (I have four of them) apart to that degree. I would have to look up a disassembly manual if I was going to attempt to do it again. But if one is shooting Black Powder 44-40 or 38-40 cartridges in an 1892, it does not really matter much, because they seal the chamber so well that very little fouling blows past the shell in the chamber. What little gets in there can be easily cleaned without a total take down.
 
Carl N. Brown said:
That said, everyone I've heard with experience with the Winchester 1873 says it feeds a lot smoother on repeat shots than any Winchester 1892 or any Marlin 1894 pistol caliber carbine. The 1873 has a super controlled cartridge feed system.
Click to expand...

Which is why the 1873 model is the preferred rifle for most of the really fast shooters in Cowboy Action Shooting. Most of the top guns shoot the 1873 short rifle chambered for 357 Magnum. Most shoot lightly loaded 38 Special ammo in them.
 
Driftwood Johnson said:
Howdy Again

I can agree with that. I would go so far as to say cleaning the 1873 is a lot easier than cleaning the 1892. When shooting Black Powder in the 1873 Winchester, if one is not using a WCF cartridge, such as 44-40 or 38-40, which seal the chamber better than the thicker brass of cartridges such as 45 Colt, all one has to do to clean the mechanism is remove the side plates with one screw. The entire mechanism is then accessible for cleaning. That can be seen in the photos I posted earlier.

A lot more has to be taken apart to completely access the mechanism of the 1892.

To be completely honest it has been a long, long time since I took one of my 1892 Winchesters (I have four of them) apart to that degree. I would have to look up a disassembly manual if I was going to attempt to do it again. But if one is shooting Black Powder 44-40 or 38-40 cartridges in an 1892, it does not really matter much, because they seal the chamber so well that very little fouling blows past the shell in the chamber. What little gets in there can be easily cleaned without a total take down.
Click to expand...


I wish I had known better when I got into CAS. I shoot Frontier Cartridge (and Frontiersman from time to time) and I’m all set up in 45 Colt. In retrospect, 44-40 would have been the better choice, although there’s nothing easier to load for than 45 Colt BP.
 
I have both, an original '73 and a Rossi 92. If you look down at the bolt in the '73 you wonder how that thin little piece of metal is holding up to explosions. lol

The toggles in the Uberti '73, as shown by Mr. Driftwood, look more robust than the originals in mine do. The Rossi 92 action gives much more confidence that it will hold up to stronger loads. I limit my loads in the '73 to mild Trailboss loads, the Rossi is good for any .357 load, +P, Underwood, or Grizzly included.

There seems to have been variations in the quality of manufacture of Rossi's in the past, I was fortunate to get a good one that worked perfectly out of the box and will feed any bullet design and either .38Spl. or .357 with no problems.

With the new guns, I doubt you can go wrong with either one.
 
Speedo66 said:
The toggles in the Uberti '73, as shown by Mr. Driftwood, look more robust than the originals in mine do.
Click to expand...

Howdy Again

In case nobody has figured this out yet, I really enjoy photographing guns.

Here is an original Winchester Model 1873 from 1887 at the top and my Uberti replica 1873 at the bottom. Yes, there is a little bit of variation in the shape of the parts. Notice the Winchester has the original lever spring, vs the after market lever spring in the Uberti.

pof76FfKj.jpg
 
The tolerances on the center pivot in your original are so tight it almost looks like one piece.

The design has certainly withstood the test of time, and still going strong. The bore on my 1889 vintage model leaves something to be desired, but the action still works well.
 
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