I am wanting to get a semi auto for concealed carry. I currently have only a Browning Hi Power and a small revolver on my ccw list to carry. I would like to carry the bhp more often but its kind of big and heavy for concealed carry so I usually just carry the revolver. Ive been looking at three different semi autos for ccw( mainly these three because two are being offered at a pawnshop for a reasonable price and one my friend is selling to help him with the purchase of a Kimber). One is a Star bm the other a Makarov and my friend has a SW9VE(sigma?) If anyone has any opinions on which of the three would be better for ccw any opinions and advice would be appreciated,also I want somethin thats fun to take out and just go plinking.
lightweight and inexpensive semi auto for ccw
- Thread starter mokster
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Hollowdweller
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Makarov for sure. Also CZ82 is fairly cheap and has a bit more capacity. Not as flat as a Mak though so not good to carry unobtrusively.
Nimble1
Member
Polish P-64
Just picked one up last week for CCW. Working on the 20lb DA pull to get it better.Appears to be well made and its cheap!
Just picked one up last week for CCW. Working on the 20lb DA pull to get it better.Appears to be well made and its cheap!
otomik
Member
SW9VE is just bad
Star BM isn't lightweight like you said you wanted and parts and support aren't there which isn't good when you CCW it.
Makarov is a quality gun
http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/makarov.htm
the novak sights seems like a very good idea.
Star BM isn't lightweight like you said you wanted and parts and support aren't there which isn't good when you CCW it.
Makarov is a quality gun
http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/makarov.htm
the novak sights seems like a very good idea.
outofbattery
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otomik said:
The VE Sigmas,though they don't actually use Sigma anymore I guess,aren't bad guns at all.I don't personally own one but have never had a failure shooting one and wouldn't mind owning a 9VE is I felt the need for another 9mm plinker.It's what I'd chose from those 3 without any hesitation.
Hey mokster, don't you have gun shows in Lost Wages, NV? Surely there are more choices than the ones in your consideration. The great thing about the gun world is that there are soooo many choices. Even if price is one of your limits, there are still lots of choices.
Did I mention that there are tons of choices? poppy
Did I mention that there are tons of choices? poppy
MCgunner
Member
For a little more money than $200 quoted for the Mak, there's a lot of compact nines to choose from. I'd rather have a nine than a Mak in either 9mm Mak or .380 ACP. And, some of those nines are quite small and light. The Sigma is one of 'em, but Taurus, Kel Tec, Glock (not cheap), and others make 'em.
otomik
Member
did you find some super special alloy-framed star model bm because the fullsize B and compact BM are both all steel and pretty heavy (though nice and thin for carry).passur said:
I've been linking stephen a camp's website a lot lately.
http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/Critical Look at Star Model BM.htm
the other points about caliber and whatnot I agree and it's a good idea to have a few spare parts for any important weapon.
the SW9VE or Sigma is a mediocre glock imitation with few new ideas (more "safety features", extra heavy 10 pound "lawyer special" trigger, better ergonomics maybe). the Value Edition is a last ditch effort to turn a profit. please search sigma on this forum.
longeyes
member
Mak. Goes bang.
Here's another vote for a Mak. I have a BHP and shoot it better than any of my other handguns, but it is way too big for me to conceal. For potential carry I have KelTec P11 (9mm Luger), a KelTec P3AT (9mm Short, aka 380) and the Mak (9.2mm, actually.) The Mak is larger and heavier than either of the other two. It is less powerful than, and carries 2 fewer rounds than, the P11. I carry the Mak.
The Mak is a hoot to shoot, whereas the P11 starts to hurt my wrist and elbow after a couple of magazines (too many years of 44 Magnum are catching up with my joints.) As a result, practice with the P11 is a challenge. The hottest 115g JHP load I've fired in 9mm Luger is Speer's Gold Dot, at 1280 fps (from the Browning - would be less from a shorter barrel.) Brown Bear 115g JHP goes out of the Makarov just over 1000 fps. The muzzle energies in foot-pounds are 255 (9 Mak) and 418 (9 Luger.) The Mak is below the BHP in power, but is still ahead of another commonly-recommended defense gun, the 38 Special snub nose - my 2" S&W sends a Federal +P 158g (I think, but it might be lighter in which case lower energy) JHP downrange at 819fps, for 235 ft-lbs of energy. And that gun is REALLY no fun to shoot.
The Mak has been dead-nuts reliable with anything I've shot in it, including a wide variety of my own handloads. It is also one of the simplest of autoloaders (only 27 parts), detail strips almost completely using a screwdriver and needle nose pliers or dental pick (or just the issue cleaning rod), has spare parts available at very low cost, and has an active following on the net with lots of info on self-maintenance and self-improvement of the gun (I smoothed and lightened the trigger pull quite nicely with just a Dremel tool, following published info.)
The challenge many Mak owners face is the difficulty of refraining from buying a second one.
There's just something about the things that makes you want more than one. I have a Bulgarian ($210, barely used) and an East German ($325 with 2 mags + holster, showing holster wear but excellent mechanicals.) The EG is a much smoother working gun, and worth the extra (to me, at least.)
The Mak is a hoot to shoot, whereas the P11 starts to hurt my wrist and elbow after a couple of magazines (too many years of 44 Magnum are catching up with my joints.) As a result, practice with the P11 is a challenge. The hottest 115g JHP load I've fired in 9mm Luger is Speer's Gold Dot, at 1280 fps (from the Browning - would be less from a shorter barrel.) Brown Bear 115g JHP goes out of the Makarov just over 1000 fps. The muzzle energies in foot-pounds are 255 (9 Mak) and 418 (9 Luger.) The Mak is below the BHP in power, but is still ahead of another commonly-recommended defense gun, the 38 Special snub nose - my 2" S&W sends a Federal +P 158g (I think, but it might be lighter in which case lower energy) JHP downrange at 819fps, for 235 ft-lbs of energy. And that gun is REALLY no fun to shoot.
The Mak has been dead-nuts reliable with anything I've shot in it, including a wide variety of my own handloads. It is also one of the simplest of autoloaders (only 27 parts), detail strips almost completely using a screwdriver and needle nose pliers or dental pick (or just the issue cleaning rod), has spare parts available at very low cost, and has an active following on the net with lots of info on self-maintenance and self-improvement of the gun (I smoothed and lightened the trigger pull quite nicely with just a Dremel tool, following published info.)
The challenge many Mak owners face is the difficulty of refraining from buying a second one.
There's just something about the things that makes you want more than one. I have a Bulgarian ($210, barely used) and an East German ($325 with 2 mags + holster, showing holster wear but excellent mechanicals.) The EG is a much smoother working gun, and worth the extra (to me, at least.)Nick96
Member
Actually, I was looking for a "None Of The Above" selection. But of the choices indicated - I'd say the Star. Unfortunatally - they are no longer in production (or at least no longer imported to the U.S.). Fortunatally - there are quite a few out there used that can be had pretty cheap. Star handguns in most any varient are a "best buy" for a "work gun".
When talking about "small" handuns though - I prefer revolvers. Exception being the Beretta 950BS .25 "Jetfire". "Mouse Gun" - YES. Out of production -YES. But considering weight, size, reliability, ease of operation, safety, etc. - it's hard to beat an instrument that will punch nine 1/4 inch size holes in a target, where you want them, within 10 feet as fast as you can pull the trigger.
When talking about "small" handuns though - I prefer revolvers. Exception being the Beretta 950BS .25 "Jetfire". "Mouse Gun" - YES. Out of production -YES. But considering weight, size, reliability, ease of operation, safety, etc. - it's hard to beat an instrument that will punch nine 1/4 inch size holes in a target, where you want them, within 10 feet as fast as you can pull the trigger.
KONY
Member
Out of the choices given, I'd go with the 9VE with a nod to the Makarov if really tight on budget. However, my "off-the-list" suggestion would be a Taurus Millenium Pro 9mm. Its almost as light as a Kel-tec P11 except with a better trigger, better ergos and much softer to shoot.
Actually I was going to put none of the above or other but I didnt. Just wanted some ideas on a sub $300 gun that was reliable enough for concealed carry and fun to shoot. The three I put up just happened to be the last three that were offered to me at what I thought a good price.Shoot I might just end up with all three eventually.
idahoberetta9000s
Member
The Makorov is an inexpensive CCW, but depending on where you live, it can be difficult to find good defensive ammo. Most gun shops where I live, if they carry 9X18, are FMJ.
Texfire
Member
Hollowdweller said:
+1 for the CZ 82. In my opinion the fit and finish on it are much superior to the Makarov, don't even mention the Radom which has a double action pull that only a mother can love. Yes it is a little thicker, but that's because of the double stack mag that gives it the aformentioned increased magazine capacity, and a very nice double action pull as well as a nice single action pull. Also a plus, for a lefty at least, it comes with an ambidextrious safety.
If you prefer .380 over 9x18 then the CZ83 is identical, but chambered in 9mm Kurtz. Gives you some better defensive ammo choices. Great little platform.
Tex
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I'd say Star BM, with one caveat. I like Stars. I own several and carry them. The BM is still common and can be found at prices low enough that having one set aside just for parts is an option. They shoot ordinary, cheap 9mm rounds (avoid +P).
But check it first! All Stars are used. Some are a lot more used than others. I have found one BM with a worn sear that was genuinely hair-trigger (nice source of parts, though, and I got a great price). Some Stars have overlong firing pins, easily checked for by pressing the pin flush with the slide locked back and looking for protrusion past the breech face.
You do have to be comfortable carrying cocked & locked.
If weight is an issue, the alloy-framed BKM is the same thing, but lighter. But they are uncommon and usually cost more.
--Herself
But check it first! All Stars are used. Some are a lot more used than others. I have found one BM with a worn sear that was genuinely hair-trigger (nice source of parts, though, and I got a great price). Some Stars have overlong firing pins, easily checked for by pressing the pin flush with the slide locked back and looking for protrusion past the breech face.
You do have to be comfortable carrying cocked & locked.
If weight is an issue, the alloy-framed BKM is the same thing, but lighter. But they are uncommon and usually cost more.
--Herself
gbran
Member
If you want good & cheap, Go Mak
My Mak (lower right) is about the same size as my Glock G26 (middle top) , but has a longer grip. It's accurate, fun and has never failed me.
My Mak (lower right) is about the same size as my Glock G26 (middle top) , but has a longer grip. It's accurate, fun and has never failed me.
KONY
Member
gbran said:My Mak (lower right) is about the same size as my Glock G26 (middle top) , but has a longer grip. It's accurate, fun and has never failed me.
Crop those feet out, Mister!
mokster said:
If I had to go with one of the original trio - I would HIGHLY recommend the SW9VE. Rock Solid Performance, Hi Capacity, Great Shooter to POA and you can not beat the price. I own one and carry it from time to time. Great Value 9mm.
If I were to point to a None Of The Above shooter, I HIGHLY recommend the Taurus PT Mil Pro series... PT111, PT140, PT145. All three are Great CCW and SD weapons. Lightweight, Accurate Shooter, Solid w/ no sharp edges, Hi Caps (12+1, 10+1 and 10+1) Great Feel and balance... and all are sub $300 buys.
Just my opinion... Happy shooting!
I did really like the feel of the sw9ve. The guy whos selling it did tell me he didnt like it because of the hard trigger pull, which seems to be a recurring theme if you look in the thr archives. I dry fired it,it didnt seem unmanagable,plus Ive read that there are fixes to make it a little better.
I voted for the Star BM but only because of the 9X19 caliber over the Mak's 9X18. I have a Circle 10 Mak that is one of my favorite carry pieces in hot weather. However, I'm more comfortable with the larger 9X19.
I would also suggest you look at Kel-tec's 9mm P11. Holds 10 rounds with standard magazine, conceals easily and is dirt cheap.
A LEO friend of mine has Sigma and hates it.
I would also suggest you look at Kel-tec's 9mm P11. Holds 10 rounds with standard magazine, conceals easily and is dirt cheap.
A LEO friend of mine has Sigma and hates it.
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