Little Rock And North Little Rock Police Investigate Officer Involved Shooting

[Vernal45]

Little Rock And North Little Rock Police Investigate Officer Involved Shooting
( Air Date: 7/15/2005 )
A police chase in Little Rock led to a shooting involving an officer north of the river.

The chase started at 2nd and Ferry streets in Little Rock.

Around 2:25 Thursday afternoon, Little Rock police stopped a car that had been driving erratically and hitting curbs.

Officers approached the car and tried to get the driver out.

But they say he Alexander Jones combative and drove off, dragging officer Kelly Lepore by the arm for a few feet.

Eventually the suspect led several Little Rock police cars to 23rd and Franklin streets in North Little Rock.

Little Rock Police Sgt. Terry Hastings says "One of our detectives was assisting in the area, saw the vehicle, approached it, ordered the driver out, he went for the glove box, opened it and grabbed something he describes as shiny. The officer fired at the suspect."

Jones is listed in serious condition at UAMS and Detective Bruce Maxwell, who shot the suspect, is on paid leave.

http://www.kark.com/news/default.asp?mode=shownews&id=4695

 

[Standing Wolf]

...a car that had been driving erratically and hitting curbs.

Wrong. The car didn't do that. The driver did.

 

[LawDog]

So what, exactly, is the Legal and/or Political point here?

I realize that you think that the officers did something wrong. What you think they did wrong, is unclear at this time, since you posted no comments.

LawDog

 

[roo_ster]

I'm with LawDog, in my "Huh?"

A guy leading a chase from dntn LR across the river into NLR in endangering a lot of folks.

 

[Vernal45]

"One of our detectives was assisting in the area, saw the vehicle, approached it, ordered the driver out, he went for the glove box, opened it and grabbed something he describes as shiny. The officer fired at the suspect."

You dont fire on someone because they grabbed something "SHINY". They either have a weapon, or not. No in between. Kind of like the man in the wheel chair being shot because the officer thought a coke can was a gun. Something shiny is not a threat. Also, If anyone has been following this story, the LRPD and NLRPD have yet to comment if the suspect was armed, or if the shiny object was a firearm.

 

[Pilgrim]

You dont fire on someone because they grabbed something "SHINY". They either have a weapon, or not. No in between.

There is a term used in the courts in determining the reasonableness of an officer's actions called "totality of the circumstances". In this case there is a driver who has been observed driving erratically. When the officers attempted to detain him to determine if he is driving while under the influence, he drives off, endangering the life of one officer. When the driver is eventually brought to bay, instead of complying with an officer's orders to get out of the car he instead grabs something shiny which the officer believes might be a weapon. The officer fires.

Given the totality of the circumstances, is it reasonable for the officer who fired to believe his life is in danger? This is the standard that will be applied to judge if the officer's shooting his weapon was reasonable, not whether or not the shiny object was indeed a weapon.

 

[Jeff White]

Vernal 45,

Didn't you mention in an earlier thread that you had been a peace officer in Texas for a number of years? Don't they teach totality of the circumstances (described by Pilgrim) as part of the legal portion of POST certification in Texas?

If the details in this sketchy article are correct and if the shiny object wasn't a weapon, this case would almost be a textbook example of the totality of the circumstances making an otherwise illegal shooting a legal one.

You're a reasonable man right? So you are in Detective Maxwell's place that day. You hear a broadcast about a possible DUI suspect who has driven off from a traffic stop, dragging an officer down the road. All of a sudden the chase turns down the street you're on, you join in and are in a position to approach the car, you order the suspect to show you his hands and exit the vehicle, suspect dives for the glove box and comes out with a shiny object in his hands. Do you wait until he turns the weapon on you or another officer? Do you wait until you're sure it's a weapon and maybe be shot or see a brother officer or a citizen on the street shot? Or do you shoot?

Tough choice, the article doesn't say what Maxwell knew about the chase, but around here, the assault on the officer (by dragging him) would have been a prominant part of the broadcast. So my friend, knowing what you know..what do you do? Shoot? Don't Shoot? You've got .7 seconds to make up your mind...BTW that .7 seconds may be the rest of your life......

Jeff

 

[Byron Quick]

Vernal,

I've had people with their hands in their jacket pockets threaten to shoot me on two occasions. I guarantee you that I would have shot either of them if something shiny had been produced from pocket. I'm not a police officer.

I have a comment on your common topic. Your motive seems to be to increase divisiveness between private citizens and LEO's. Sir, that is not a positive route to take in order to further RKBA.

I won't say, as a moderator,"Don't post these topics." I will suggest, as a moderator, to find other topics to post on in addition to your obsession. Simply as a member; I would urge those other topics to be a large majority. It's getting boring, my friend, as well as making your motives suspect.