Looking to get my first flintlock

[Jenrick]

One of the perks of having your birthday close to Christmas, but not that close is you can combine them and get one big gift. Also once you're an adult you can buy yourself said big combo present

I'm going whole hog this year and finally getting a flintlock. I've shot percussion for the last few years with an 1851 Navy in .44, so I'm pretty comfortable in making a percussion cap gun work. What I'm going to get myself is: http://www.middlesexvillagetrading.com/M1BB.shtml (Middlsex Village Trading Long Land Pattern Brown Bess).

Now I haven't owned a flintlock before, but I've shot one once (hence why I want one!). What all do I need to support shooting a flintlock, besides what I already have for my cap lock (powder flask, measure, etc)? From what I've read:

Vent pick and pan whisk
Priming powder flask
Flints along with either lead or leather to secure them
Knapping hammer
Lock spring vise
Bayonet and Sling (well I'm at least telling the wife they're required!)

Also a few question regarding flintlocks: Can you dry them in any manner? With a cap lock using something to cushion the hammer fall on the nipple solves the problem, is something similar with the cock and the frizzen?

Will using a patched ball see an improvement in accuracy compared to a ball and wadding if the same diameter ball is used in both cases (I'm assuming yes)? Should said patch be lubed like you would for a rifle?

Thanks in advance,

-Jenrick

 

[alsask]

You can dry fire a flintlock all you want as long as there is a flint correctly fitted in the hammer, and your frizzen is down [closed] each time. Actually if you are new to flinters it might not hurt to prime your pan when dry firing to get accustom to the flash.

As far as a patched ball goes accuracy wise I don't know. I have only shot flintlock rifles and not smoothbores.

 

[FiveStrings]

Jenrick, you will have a lot of fun with that Brown Bess. You've got a good list started. Cleaning gear for that gun will be important. A good investment might also be to sink some $$$ into a good 10-32 range rod, cleaning jag, fouling scraper, bore brush, and ramrod guide. Cleaning a BRown Bess is kind of like wrestling.

That gun is capable of being very accurate out to ~50 yards with a lube-patched round ball. I've shot 10-inch groups with mine benched at 50 yards and I think that's pretty impressive for a big old smoothbore. The other thing you can do with it is load it up like an 11-gauge shotgun. Yesterday my shot-loaded Brown Bess blew the snot out of my halloween pumpkins. For those loads you need to get:
*a bag of shot
*over powder cards
*fiber wads
*over shot cards

The Brown Bess is a very satisfying overall flintlock. Built to spear a cavalry horse, huge bang factor, diversity of loads.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

The first question would be, why are you planning on dry firing your musket? One or two snaps on a flint to check sparking, that's fine, but they are not like rifles, and you should not be training on the trigger pull by using an actual flint. When men trained for trigger use on their muskets they inserted a piece of hardwood in place of the flint.

Next, though some people use a patched ball in smoothbores, you will normally do much better to use a 1/8" wad over the powder, followed by a paper patched round ball. A cloth patched round ball does not fold the cloth in the same manner each time, and you then have accuracy problems. Making a paper cartridge tube that is of a diameter to just fit inside the bore while holding the musket ball well is the key. It's the same idea as the military rounds, but the military rounds held a much smaller ball, so the ball didn't sit in the barrel the same way every time. They used like a .680 - .690 ball in the .75 muskets. For accuracy you should try a .715. If that doesn't work well, others have found with a wad over the powder, a plain .735 ball covered with a crumpled piece of paper shoots well, no patching required.

Finally, pay no attention to folks who tell you that you need a huge load of more than 90 grains of 2Fg to make it shoot well. 80 grains is roughly three drams of powder, and works just fine.

LD

 

[Jenrick]

Loyalist Dave: Thanks for the tip on the piece of hardwood in the cock. Basically as you said to get used to the trigger.

-Jenrick

 

[MattShlock]

Dave also forgot to mention that you might want to reconsider buying an India-made musket. Unless you are reenacting there are other guns, including an actual rifle, you might consider though the Bess is a classic. And from The Orient they are affordable if not made especially well.

Regardless, you do just need to have the bayonet if you get one -- this is not a half-truth! Though the last India-made bayonet I saw someone put on his gun literally broke off -- there was a huge void perfectly concealed under the polished weld and this happened to the perfectly-round commander of The Brigade of the American Revolution who did it in front of all to see. Adding insult to injury he SELLS them sometimes, LOL.

 

[Doak]

Seems those Middlesex guns are made in India & proofed in Europe.

There's no big mystery in proofing. Black powder only. Double charged, double balled, barrel only, amply duct taped to a wood plank w/wood blocks glued & screwed to back up the breech on both sides of the tang. Fuse the touch hole & get behind sumpin. Done several of 'em.

The idea is to simulate the most common loading mistakes...double charging & double balling...all in one test. Think Dixie has proof charges in their catalog.

Used to shoot w/a couple a Bess shooters. They loved 'em, some of the time. It was hard on their lead supply. 71+ cal. ball is a thing to behold! And a diminishing lead pile is too!

Rest of the time they shot 24ga. trade guns, which are easier on powder & ball both.

English gauging system is balls per pound. ie, 11ga.(75cal) is 11 balls per pound. 24ga.(58cal) is 24/lb. More than twice as many shots for the same amount of lead.

Regulation load for the Bess was 120gr. of "course" powder. Contrary to popular lore, the Bess wasn't primed as a separate loading step. To get 3 to 4 shots off per minute, couldn't spare the time.

The touch hole was large enuff to spill powder from the main charge. So, the lock was put on 1/2 cock, the frizzen was closed, the paper cartridge was bit off, the powder was dumped down the hole, and some of it ran into the covered pan.

Not a safe proceedure, but if you're gonna die anyway...who cares!

Misfire rates ran 20% to 40%.

Pedersoli makes the nicest commercially available Bess I've seen.

Kindest Regards,
Doak

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Seems those Middlesex guns are made in India & proofed in Europe.

Unless things have changed this year...

There are no Indian made black powder arms that are sold in America by any importer/finisher companies that have been proofed by a certified proof house prior to sale. Any proofed barrels have been proofed after shipment from India, AND are normally done by the customer, after-market.

There is no single standard for proofing muzzleloader barrels at the certified proof houses. Italian standards are 140% of max load, and a single projectile, all barrels proofed, Spanish is 200% of max load with a single projectile, a portion of a "batch" of barrels are tested, and the British standard is 250% max load, and two projectiles with all barrels being proofed.

You could try a test load with projectiles then visually inspect the barrel and then have it magnafluxed to be sure..., but it still would only be "tested", for the terms "proof", "proof mark" and "proofing" normally means a test by one of the certified proof-houses around the world.

LD

 

[MattShlock]

...Contrary to popular lore, the Bess wasn't primed as a separate loading step. To get 3 to 4 shots off per minute, couldn't spare the time.

The touch hole was large enuff to spill powder from the main charge. So, the lock was put on 1/2 cock, the frizzen was closed, the paper cartridge was bit off, the powder was dumped down the hole, and some of it ran into the covered pan.

Not a safe proceedure, but if you're gonna die anyway...who cares!

This is not true. Only worn or expanded toucholes could be banged on the ground, butt down, to spill powder into the pan and that is stupid to regularly do to your musket as a soldier and certainly wouldn't be condoned or even allowed in regular practice by the officers, commissioned or otherwise.

And if India-made guns were proofed, anywhere, any way, we'd know it! Yeah, Pedersoli Bess' are the best though sometimes criticized by know-it-alls over minor details as "generic" 2nd Model guns which weren't plentiful in America during the Revolution especially in Americans' hands.