highorder
Member
I'd posted this before, but I hope people enjoy it again. 
My inspiration:
My stock:
The process:
The finished product:
My inspiration:
My stock:
The process:
The finished product:
Making Knives
- Thread starter Mencius
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Mencius
Member
Those are some sweet, inspiring knives ya'll got going on there. Btw, Highorder, what is that handle made of?
I have one other quick question, how do ya'll heat treat the steel? I understand that just the words "heat treat" seems to indicate you just heat it up, but I am guessing there is more to it than that...
I have one other quick question, how do ya'll heat treat the steel? I understand that just the words "heat treat" seems to indicate you just heat it up, but I am guessing there is more to it than that...
Black Toe Knives
Member
Nope it is pretty much you heat it up. There are different recipes for different steels. Carbon steel you pretty much heat it up til it non magnetic then quench in different mediums. Stainless steel is more complicated, they require ramp time, hold times and different cooling methods. It is an art in itself.
highorder
Member
The handle scales are canvas micarta. I attached the scales with 10-32 flat head machine screws so they can be removed for cleaning, etc.
I heat treated that beast in peanut oil and tempered with a torch. It takes a lot of heat to get that much mass up to 1500F+ I wish I would have had a small furnace, instead a big rosebud tip for the oxyacetylene rig.
I heat treated that beast in peanut oil and tempered with a torch. It takes a lot of heat to get that much mass up to 1500F+ I wish I would have had a small furnace, instead a big rosebud tip for the oxyacetylene rig.
AMEN!
You can make a decent useable knife with very basic methods but to get the most out of the steel it gets pretty scientific.
IMO, You should know exactly what type of steel you are using and learn the specifics for that steel. This is one of the reasons I don't advocate using scrap steel for knife making.
If you heat treat O1 the same way you are supposed to heat treat 1084 you could experience catastrophic failure.
1084, 1080 & W1 are among the easiest steels to HT and can be purchased inexpensively online. (1084 is pretty hard to find but I think Admiral Steel still had some on clearance last I checked)
highorder
Member
Don't be too quick to discount "scrap" steel. Many fine knives have been made from saw blades, files, and old truck springs. For a beginner, I do recommend starting with a known entity. Flat ground O1 is a great place to start.
I didn't discount it completely, many parts are made from standard steel grades and you can make educated guesses as to what it is.
What I did say was that in order to get the most out of heat treat you need to know exactly what type of steel it is. There's not really a grey area there.
You can't heat treat O1 the same way as W1 and expect good results, the same goes for the reverse of that.
O1 can be challenging to heat treat properly with basic tools because it requires a soak time once it's brought up to solution, pretty tough to do acurately without an oven or forge with good temperature control. This is well documented by every manufacturer of O1.
The other steels I mentioned do not require a soak time or not as much of one so you can pretty much get them a bit beyond magnetic and quench for a basic heat treat.
Don't take anything I'm saying personal but there's nothing metaphysical about heat treating. Everything that needs to be done for proper heat treat is well documented and available to anyone who wants to study it.
What I did say was that in order to get the most out of heat treat you need to know exactly what type of steel it is. There's not really a grey area there.
You can't heat treat O1 the same way as W1 and expect good results, the same goes for the reverse of that.
O1 can be challenging to heat treat properly with basic tools because it requires a soak time once it's brought up to solution, pretty tough to do acurately without an oven or forge with good temperature control. This is well documented by every manufacturer of O1.
The other steels I mentioned do not require a soak time or not as much of one so you can pretty much get them a bit beyond magnetic and quench for a basic heat treat.
Don't take anything I'm saying personal but there's nothing metaphysical about heat treating. Everything that needs to be done for proper heat treat is well documented and available to anyone who wants to study it.
Black Toe Knives
Member
Real Charcoal, not briquettes and a forced air source. You have no problem getting 1/2 thick piece of steel up to 1500 degrees in less than 20 Minutes. I have used a small fan and last time I used a hair dryer for my force air supply.
highorder
Member
I'm no expert. I was taught knifemaking by an old ABS member/HS shop teacher. He started people doing stock removal from .125" O1 ground blanks. We heat treated and tempered with an oxyacetylene torch. Perhaps he instructed with great skill, but O1 came off as forgiving and easy.
We did some O1 and 1095 forging as well. That was humbling.
Me neither, but I don't think anyone is
I've forged quite a bit of O1 and it's very unforgiving (to forge).
Like I said earlier, I'm not knocking anyone. Especially the old timers who have been around the block a few hundred times and I listen to everything they say when they talk because it's amazing what you can learn.
When it comes to heat treating I prefer to listen to the manufacturers and then tweak to fit my application.
Here's a good link to O1 technical data.
Hardening:
Most importantly, have fun and stay safe!
I've forged quite a bit of O1 and it's very unforgiving (to forge).
Like I said earlier, I'm not knocking anyone. Especially the old timers who have been around the block a few hundred times and I listen to everything they say when they talk because it's amazing what you can learn.
When it comes to heat treating I prefer to listen to the manufacturers and then tweak to fit my application.
Here's a good link to O1 technical data.
Hardening:
- Pre-heat slowly to 1200ºF - 1250ºF, then soak steel thoroughly. Increase heat more rapidly to quenching temperature of 1450ºF-1500ºF.
- Hold steel at quenching temperature for one half hour per inch of greatest cross section.
- Surface protection: pack hardening or controlled atmosphere furnaces.
- Quench in oil-bath (Oil temperature should be 150ºF).
Most importantly, have fun and stay safe!
bikerdoc
Moderator In Memoriam
I am a forging failure, and therefor stick to stock reduction. I find you guys that forge facinating to learn from.
I sent pm...I build custom knives and tomahawks for 28 years.
e-mail is [email protected]
e-mail is [email protected]
Mencius
Member
Let's just say, hypothetically, you get one type of steel and heat treat it the way another type should be. What kind of harm will be done, most likely? I guess, how much damage can you do by heat treating the steel incorrectly?
Too hard and breaks, too soft and won't hold and edge OR too long at too high a heat and your burn out the carbon.
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