Marlin CB 357 loads?

[Z1B]

I have in a great condition Marlin Cowboy Limited in 357 with a 24 inch barrel. I have a Williams peep rear sight and a Lyman globe front sight. I shoot cowboy silhouette with it and the reason why I have this rifle. I have been working up loads for it but I am having trouble finding which direction to go and which powder to use. I have tried the old standby’s plus a couple of the newer powders. I think I have found a reasonably good 180 gr load with 2400 for the Rams but a load that shoots with reasonable accuracy with a 158 eludes me. I have not tried any lead projectiles. Any ideas? For those who are not familiar with the Marlin Cowboy Limited’s has Ballard rifling, not the microgroove. The brass I’m using is fresh Starline. And CCI primers, regular and Mag depending on the powder. Thanks in advance. Tim

 

[ReloaderFred]

I've had good success with cast bullets in my Marlins using Hodgdon Lil'Gun, especially with the 180 and 185 gr. RNFP gas checked bullets that I cast. I get an average of 1,710 fps with the Hodgdon recommended load for these bullets, and they're very, very accurate.

I can't help you with the 158 gr. load, but you might give Lil'Gun a try with that weight bullet and see what it does for you.

Hope this helps.

Fred

 

[Z1B]

Thanks Fred. I've read that some like the .359 dia. lead bullets. I was thinking of trying Lil'Gun and will have to look at the powder section at the gun store a little harder.

 

[frankmako]

i use the same rifle in nra pistol cartridge silhouette matches. also i have a second one for backup. i have to travel for matches, with the closest match a six hour round trip. so i take a backup rifle for all matches. i use titegroup powder and the zero brand 158gr jhp bullet. i played around with the 125 gr and 140 gr bullets (cast/plated/fmj/jhp) and titegroup, but my rifles groups better with the 158 gr. bullet (plated/fmj hp). i use a mag primer with all my titegroup 357 mag loads. i drop 6.5 of titegroup with the zero brand 158 gr jhp bullet and the col is 1.585. this load runs 1,295 fps across my chronograph. this load will also work on lever action (big bore) on the first three animals. i am working on a 200 meter ram load with a 180 gr fmj fp bullet with h110 and 2400 just for fun (at this time it is a ram ringer). i use a 30-30 for the big animals so i just playing around with the 357 mag. so for pistol cartridge silhouette the 158 gr plated or jhp bullet with titegroup will do the job. for the heavy gun go with the 30-30 so you don't ring rams. i got a boat load of data for the 357 mag rifle (18 inch/20 inch/24 inch) with 125 gr/140 gr/158 gr/180 gr bullets with titegroup/ sr4756/ h110/ 2400 powder for the silhouette game. data is heavy on titegroup and sr 4756 powders. this winter i am going to work up data with aa#5, bullseye, unique, 2400, and h110 with the 158 gr. let me know if you want any of my data. no reason to do the hard work when someone else has all ready done it. also i did not have any luck with cast lead. i kept leading the barrel no matter how slow i ran them. i sluged my barrel for correct size and used store brands and my own casted with no luck. i made some powder coated cast lead bullets to try this winter with a differnt powder.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I think I have found a reasonably good 180 gr load with 2400 for the Rams but a load that shoots with reasonable accuracy with a 158 eludes me. I have not tried any lead projectiles. Any ideas?

If your 180gr bullet 2400 load is accurate and generates enough energy to drop the targets stick with it. If not give Lil'Gun a try. It's accurate in my Marlin and delivers at least 100 fps more velocity than W296/H110 does.

I've had good success with cast bullets in my Marlins using Hodgdon Lil'Gun, especially with the 180 and 185 gr. RNFP gas checked bullets that I cast. I get an average of 1,710 fps with the Hodgdon recommended load for these bullets, and they're very, very accurate.

I can't help you with the 158 gr. load, but you might give Lil'Gun a try with that weight bullet and see what it does for you.

Fred

I did some testing with Lil'Gun and several different weight bullets and I was surprised with the results. I really like the 180gr cast bullets from Cast Performance with gas checks.

I did send a bunch of bullets over the chrono shot from the Marlin Levergun. Like I said, it seems Lil'Gun adds ~100 fps to each load.
Here are the numbers: (you will be surprised!)

Using a 180gr Hornady XTP bullet:
15.0gr Lil'Gun - CCI-550 primer - AV=1584 fps
13.6gr W296 - CCI-550 primer - AV=1495 fps

Using a Cast Performance 180gr WFNGC bullet: (Hard Cast)
14.8gr Lil'Gun - CCI-550 primer - AV=1657 fps
13.7gr H110 - CCI-550 primer - AV=1547 fps

I also tried a 170gr Sierra JHC bullet and liked the results.
17.0gr Lil'Gun - CCI-550 primer - AV=1793 fps (that's amazing velocity!)
15.5gr H110 - CCI-550 primer - AV=1699 fps

Sorry butv I didn't test any 158gr bullets that day but I did test 150gr Sierra bullets.
Using a 150gr Sierra JHC bullet
17.0gr H110 - CCI-550 primer - AV= 1846 fps
15.5gr 2400 - Win WSP primer - AV= 1810 fps

Just to add some info for a 125gr Hornady XTP/HP bullet even though I didn't use Lil'Gun, the velocities were scary!
17.7gr 2400 - Win WSP primer - AV=2055 fps
22.0gr H110 - CCI-550 primer - AV=2239 fps

 

[FROGO207]

The take away is that you really do need to used gas checks on lead bullets in this application or there will be leading from my experience. I also like Little Gun with158 grain pills with a healthy crimp for accuracy. I would give it a try.

 

[Z1B]

Doing some reading it appears there was some debate on the burning temperature of Lil' Gun. There were complaints of Lil' Gun cutting back straps on the pistols. Others thought the firearm was very hot after a few rounds fired and chambers were being eroded. I'm getting ready to load some Lil' Gun but if these stories remain true today, I'm not so sure I am interested. A string at each distance is 5 rounds fired, Then reset targets and shoot 5 more rounds for 10 rounds for record. The time between each string is the amount of time it takes target setters to walk 200 meters set the rams and walk back. What say THR? And thanks AA your info gives me a place to start. Tim

 

[Blue68f100]

Lil'Gun has a high nitro content which makes it run hot. I have not heard of any problem with using it in rifles, but handguns are a different story. No way I will use it in any hand gun.

 

[Paladin7]

I have a Marlin 1894 CSS and found that I get exceptional accuracy with 158 gr Hornady XTPs and VV N110 Powder, Starline Brass and CCI Primers. I'm very near max with no over pressure issues. Suggest you check that out in the Hornady Load Manual. Might be exactly what you are looking for.

 

[Z1B]

Thanks for the info on that Paladin. I don't have a Hornaday book but do have a couple of others. I'll pick up some VN110 and give that a try too.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Z1B, I would not run Lil'Gun in revolvers but I do shoot it in leverguns. Like with any rifle, if the barrel is hot let it cool before you shoot the next string.

 

[ReloaderFred]

Z1B, I would not run Lil'Gun in revolvers but I do shoot it in leverguns. Like with any rifle, if the barrel is hot let it cool before you shoot the next string.

That holds true for me, too. It's my "go to" powder for full power, heavy bullet loads for my Marlins, but I don't shoot it in my revolvers. I haven't had any adverse experiences with Lil'Gun in the rifles at all.

Hope this helps.

Fred

 

[Z1B]

Loaded some 158's with Lil'gun in new brass to try out. Now all I have to do is make it the range.

 

[buck460XVR]

There were complaints of Lil' Gun cutting back straps on the pistols.

The back strap is part of the grip. You might be thinkin' top strap. What Lil' Gun does is erode forcing cones and barrels in revolvers. Theory is the hot gases escaping during the bullet passing thru the cylinder gap is the culprit. I dunno. I too don't use it in any revolver anymore because of this and didn't even use up the last of what I had in my levers. Iffin' you're gonna shoot a lot of rounds thru the gun at one time, I'd avoid Lil' Gun like the plague. My levers got too hot to handle when shooting a lot of ammo thru them loaded with Lil' Gun. I mean hot enough to burn your skin. Never had this happen with any other slow burning powder like H110/W296 and IMR4227, even with twice the amount of rounds. While this "heat" might not be detrimental to the gun, I just don't like dealing with it. Powder is too cheap and the other options just as good. The so called "extra" 100fps is not really needed or worth the bother.

For 158s in my levers, H110/W296 and IMR4227 gives me the best accuracy. Never had much luck with 2400, altho it did give me pleasant shooting medium velocity loads. But then Unique did that much for less monies. Both h110/W296 and IMR4227 like a heavy crimp for best consistency. Because of the way .357 levers lock up at the rear of the bolt, they tend to make brass used for heavy loads stretch and prone to case head separation. Thus I use either new or once/twice fired brass for the really heavy loads and delegate the rest to upper mid-velocity loads or lower.

 

[Z1B]

Buck, your right I meant top strap. Hopefully today I'll get to the range and try the Lil'gun out. I have shot 2400, Blue dot, Unique, 296 and 4227 but didn't get the group size I am looking for. Totally aware of the lever gun brass issue. I like to put as many bullets through the same hole as I can and not a big fan of grass burning loads. I believe easy on the brass and easy on the gun. Maybe I expect too much out of this rifle. I have peeps on the rear and a globe on the front with a post insert.

I am surprised the flattened ball Lil'gun make so much heat. These lever matches are 40 rds plus practice (sighters) The guy who runs the match has taken e match to 60 rds but I have not been able to attend one of those yet.

If I can find a load that will give me a consistent 2 inch group at a 100 yards I would be happy. I'm not new to competition having shot service rifle for many years. I have a 357 Blue Dot load worked up for my 6' 686 that if you get sight alignment and a good trigger pull you will hit what you are aiming at every time. Even this load doesn't shoot well out of the Marlin.

 

[buck460XVR]

If I can find a load that will give me a consistent 2 inch group at a 100 yards I would be happy. .

....wouldn't we all. I've gotten so I can produce consistent 3" groups at 100 yards and have come to the conclusion that's about as good as it's gonna get for me and my little Rossi lever. Boringly accurate for a .357 lever actually. Don't know iffin I've ever seen anyone get 2" groups from a iron sighted lever. Kinda the nature of the beast.

 

[Z1B]

A two inch group with irons off the bench at a 100 should be very doable if the rifle will do it. Maybe not so easy with the stock sights but this rifle has target sights and a good trigger. I shot the Lil'gun loads yesterday and it showed promise. I will shoot the same loads again to verify. The Lil'gun does burn hot! I am surprised for a flattened ball powder. I also noticed an increase of recoil as the charges went up. There where no signs of pressure. One of the next projects will be to get lead data.