Mas Ayoob to Tucson March 7-8 2015

[threefeathers]

Mas Ayoob to Return to Tucson March 7-8, 2015


Massad Ayoob will give his MAG 20/ Classroom class, Armed Citizens Rules of Engagement in Tucson, AZ This is a 2 day intensive study of the use of lethal force in the defense of an innocent human being. The site is the La Quinta Inn (Airport) in the very nice business room. The cost is $400. Students must have a CCW permit or be able to be identified by someone who has a CCW, is a LEO, or military person. A medical occupation card with a photo I D, a Teacher card with photo I D are also acceptable. Payment is by check or M.O. made out to Gator Farm Tactical, 1653 Moonflower Way, Sierra Vista, AZ 85635. There are attorneys registered so the legal discussions in this course will be invaluable for the legal defense of anyone involved in a self-defense shooting. e-mail Dan Southard at [email protected]

 

[threefeathers]

We used to have the classes in Sierra Vista. One of the reasons we came to Tucson was the Hotel accommodations. Tucson is a beautiful city and Mas has always liked it here. I see that we are getting the same instructors West that others are in the East. We sponsored Tom Givens 2 years ago and plan to do so again soon. I want to add Kathy Jackson for a all woman's class next year also.

 

[4v50 Gary]

Oh man. I'll be in AZ but in Phoenix at the Ben Avery Range for the NMLRA National Shoot. So close yet so far away. I want to go to Tucson too to see the historic sites.

 

[threefeathers]

Hi Gary, Mas and I will figure out a schedule for next year. We are able to set up classes other than Tucson so in the future we will probably do both MAG 20, MAG 40, and probably a MAG 80 closer to you. I have a son with a MLB team in Phoenix and I can visit my grand kids there.

 

[threefeathers]

Whooie, class at 25 4 days before and we have 3 who want to come so I will check with the hotel to see if we can accommodate them comfortably. This makes my 6th filled class for Mas.
Next to set up Tom Givens from Rangemaster again and Kathy Jackson from Cornered Cat again.

 

[BlackWidow]

Class went great, wonderful people. Threefeathers, thank you and your team for making it happen.

 

[Al Thompson]

BW, how about an AAR?

 

[claiborne]

Guess you think that only citizens with a CCW have any need to know this "invaluable" information. Shame on you!

 

[Fred Fuller]

Students must have a CCW permit or be able to be identified by someone who has a CCW, is a LEO, or military person

Claiborne,

EVERY professional defensive firearms trainer I know, and most who do not get paid to do what they do, demand proof of good citizenship/non-felonious history before they will train people they do not know personally.

Is there a reason you seem to have a problem with that requirement?

 

[Frank Ettin]

Guess you think that only citizens with a CCW have any need to know this "invaluable" information....

...EVERY professional defensive firearms trainer I know, and most who do not get paid to do what they do, demand proof of good citizenship/non-felonious history before they will train people they do not know personally....

Yes, it's a pretty common requirement. When I first signed up for a class at Gunsite (in 2002) I needed (1) a letter of reference; and (2) a letter from a law enforcement agency stating that I had no criminal record.

 

[claiborne]

Is there a reason you seem to have a problem with that requirement?

You bet, I have several reasons. Thanks for asking.

 

[threefeathers]

If you are in the old Pueblo we have a CCW class next week at SERP gatorfarmtactical through Pima County Parks and Rec.

 

[Fred Fuller]

You bet, I have several reasons. Thanks for asking.

Care to explain those reasons?

 

[claiborne]

123

 

[Frank Ettin]

...I am positive there are many more people like me who wish ever more training to maintain proficiency with firearms and "personal protection law". Demanding that we prove the essence of our character and background is in my opinion, unnecessary and unwarranted....

Your opinion is noted, but I really wouldn't care about your opinion.

I don't know you. If you (or someone else I don't know) expect me (or someone else) to teach you things which you could use to be more effective at hurting other people, I, or some other responsible instructor, would reasonably be entitled to know that you're not likely to misuse the information.

In other words, since I don't know you I have no reason to just assume that you're a good guy. You might know for an absolute fact that you're Saint Michael the Archangel his own self, but since you're a stranger I can't be expected to know that. So you'll need to show me.

 

[claiborne]

Your opinion is noted, but I really wouldn't care about your opinion.

I don't know you. If you (or someone else I don't know) expect me (or someone else) to teach you things which you could use to be more effective at hurting other people, I, or some other responsible instructor, would reasonably be entitled to know that you're not likely to misuse the information.

In other words, since I don't know you I have no reason to just assume that you're a good guy. You might know for an absolute fact that you're Saint Michael the Archangel his own self, but since you're a stranger I can't be expected to know that. So you'll need to show me.

I don't really care for your opinion either. As well I do not know you nor do I care to. I am sure I will never ask you to teach me something I may already know. I am positive I have no interest in acquainting myself with someone who is skeptical of everyone and does not value the quality of a man's word. Lets just leave it at that shall we?

 

[200Apples]

.
claiborne, please pardon my awkwardly-written post here.

First let me say thank you for your service. Second, and I say this sincerely, I may never be half the man you are... and I meet most of the criteria for being considered one of the "good guys". That said, I cannot expect Mas Ayoob, threefeathers or even Frank Ettin to know my character without having known me for some time. This is why they would like to see some verification by way of current CCW etc., something I do not have at this time, either. This thread is a heads up for me too as I wish to enroll in a Gunsite course or three in the near future...

I am only posting here because my initial reaction was similar to yours upon reading the OP, but I also instinctively knew the reasons for their standards. Please, measure up to at least half the man you are, and rethink this for a moment. I hope you'll see their point. My best to you, sir.

 

[Fred Fuller]

OK....

Going all the way back up to the OP, we see:

Students must have a CCW permit or be able to be identified by someone who has a CCW, is a LEO, or military person. A medical occupation card with a photo I D, a Teacher card with photo I D are also acceptable

It would seem a retired military ID would do too.

Dunno why there's a problem with that, unless you're just determined to get your feelings hurt. Everywhere I've ever had a CCW (only two states so far) has required passing a criminal background check in order to proceed, and in NC they require fingerprints (even though mine were already on file at DoD and DSS too) and a mental health background check as well.

What state passes out CCWs without a background check?

 

[Frank Ettin]

...Everywhere I've ever had a CCW (only two states so far) has required passing a criminal background check in order to proceed, and in NC they require fingerprints (even though mine were already on file at DoD and DSS too)...

I've had my background checked and been fingerprinted a whole bunch of times -- going back 40+ years when I got my teaching credential, then when I applied to take the Bar exam, when I needed a law enforcement letter to take a class at Gunsite, and multiple times for various CCWs. It goes with the territory.

I know I'm a good guy, but I don't expect anyone to take my word for it.

 

[claiborne]

.
claiborne, please pardon my awkwardly-written post here.

First let me say thank you for your service. Second, and I say this sincerely, I may never be half the man you are... and I meet most of the criteria for being considered one of the "good guys". That said, I cannot expect Mas Ayoob, threefeathers or even Frank Ettin to know my character without having known me for some time. This is why they would like to see some verification by way of current CCW etc., something I do not have at this time, either. This thread is a heads up for me too as I wish to enroll in a Gunsite course or three in the near future...

I am only posting here because my initial reaction was similar to yours upon reading the OP, but I also instinctively knew the reasons for their standards. Please, measure up to at least half the man you are, and rethink this for a moment. I hope you'll see their point. My best to you, sir.

In measuring up to half the man I claim to be, I completely see their points. I simply do not agree with them. Nothing more, nothing less.
It is good that we can have civil disagreements and discourse. Have a great day.

 

[Kleanbore]

Posted by Frank Ettin:

If you (or someone else I don't know) expect me (or someone else) to teach you things which you could use to be more effective at hurting other people, I, or some other responsible instructor, would reasonably be entitled to know that you're not likely to misuse the information.

Absolutely!

Posted by claiborne:

I am sure I will never ask you to teach me something I may already know.

One of the things about training is that one does not know what one does not know. (quoted from Claude Werner)

I am positive I have no interest in acquainting myself with someone who is skeptical of everyone and does not value the quality of a man's word. Lets just leave it at that shall we?

Anyone who takes what someone else says at face value faces some risk of having an unpleasant surprise. Sometimes those surprises involve criminal violence; sometimes, criminal or civil fraud; sometimes something as simple as betrayal of confidence. That's why publicly owned firms are required by law to develop, test, implement, and maintain systems of internal controls.

As Frank alluded, criminals could put the knowledge that Ayoob provides to unlawful use. Would you trust the word of a criminal who asserts that he is not a criminal?