Mid-price Precision Rifle scopes

[Gtscotty]

I'm a few months out from my purchase, but am starting to narrow down my list of potential scopes and would like to hear opinions/experiences on the different options.

I guess I'll start with my purpose and wants for this scope:

Purpose:

I'll be putting this scope on my Ruger Precision Rifle and moving the SWFA 3-15 currently mounted to another rifle. I use this rig to shoot 500 - 1,000 yds regularly and occasionally (although not since my second son came) shoot PRS style matches at the same ranges. With better glass I may stretch this setup out to 1,500 yds or so for fun every now and then, but this would not be a common occurrence.

Wants:
- <$2,000 price
- Flawless tracking
- Zero stop
- FFP
- Mil/Mil
- >20x max power
- 10 Mil/rotation elevation turret
- Better glass than my SWFA 3-15 for improved target and impact resolution at 1,000 yds.
- Christmas tree reticle, preferably something medium featured, along the lines of the Sig DEV-L, Vortex EBR-2C, Leupold FFP CCH.
-Rock solid warranty

The main scopes I'm looking at now:

Bushnell XRS II 4.5-30x50
Bushnell DMR II Pro 3.5-21x50
Sig Tango 6 4-24x50
Athlon Cronos BTR 4.5-29x56
Leupold Mark 5HD 5-25x56
Vortex Razor HD 5-20x50
Vortex Razor HD Gen II 4.5-27x56
Vortex Razor HD AMG 6-24x50

Obviously the last two are right at the top or a bit above my desired cost ceiling, but with the right sales and purchase programs they are close enough.

Given the best sales I've seen the Razor HD Gen I and Sig Tango 6 can be had for about $700 -$800 less than the Razor Gen II and AMG, while the XRS II, DMR II Pro, Mark 5 and Cronos BTR are a little pricier, but still $400 - $500 less.

I'm looking for a scope to keep a long time so cost isn't the most important metric, but any savings I can reasonably get would be available for mounts, bullets, barrels, suppressors, etc.

In terms of best value, the Sig Tango 6 and the Bushnell XRS II are really standing out to me right now. Out of the list, I've only had a chance to get behind Gen I and II Razors, I want to see the others before ordering, but I'll have to travel down to Colorado to lay hands on them.

What say you THR? Suggestions? Opinions? Experiences? Are they other scopes I should be looking at?

 

[Varminterror]

I have a DMR II and LRHS which I very much enjoy. Another one I might throw on your list is the XTRII. Had a Leup, like most leup, tracking wasn’t perfect. Both the Bushnell and Burris have been. The Razor Gen II isn’t a Nightforce, but it’s a great optic. I’m probably more comfortable with my DMR II than my Razor Gen II - I have the Razor on an ELR 300wm.

If I were doing it over with budget and beginner in mind, I would buy a DMR II over the Razor G2, then save the difference to put towards a Nightforce, S&B, or Kahles down the road.

Vortex does very good discounts for mil/LEO/1st responders/firearms instructors. Bushnell does even better for all of these, plus any KRA member - and they often have optics in their outlet shop in KC where anyone can buy at those discounted prices. Would have to look at my books, but pretty sure I paid under $900 for my DMR II.

 

[Gtscotty]

I have a DMR II and LRHS which I very much enjoy. Another one I might throw on your list is the XTRII. Had a Leup, like most leup, tracking wasn’t perfect. Both the Bushnell and Burris have been. The Razor Gen II isn’t a Nightforce, but it’s a great optic. I’m probably more comfortable with my DMR II than my Razor Gen II - I have the Razor on an ELR 300wm.

If I were doing it over with budget and beginner in mind, I would buy a DMR II over the Razor G2, then save the difference to put towards a Nightforce, S&B, or Kahles down the road.

Very helpful post, thanks!

I'll have to take a look at the XTR II, I think I know some folks that own them, so I might even be able to get behind one.

I've read about the DMR II a bit and it seems like a really good scope for the price. Most of the reviews describe the Bushnells as tough scopes with solid tracking which is probably my top priority. The only criticism I've heard people level at the DMR II and original XRS is that their glass was not quite at the level of other (usually more expensive) brands. The XRS II and DMR II Pro are supposed to have substantially upgraded glass, which is why they caught my attention. With the original reliability and upgraded glass, it seems like they would be great values.

What reticle do you have in your DMR II? I think I could like the H59 although it looks a bit busy. The G3, on the other hand is cleaner, but doesn't have quite as many wind hold points as I'd like in the between 2 and 4 mils down.

Have you been disappointed with your Razor II, or do you just feel that the DMR II is that much better of a bang for your buck? It seems like most guys around here with that grade of scope are running Razors IIs, the ones I've had a chance to play with and shoot were optically amazing and had very nice turret action. I've also had an opportunity to look through ATACRs, BEASTs, S&B PMIIs and a USO, and they were all awesome, especially the S&Bs, but unfortunately something like that isn't in the budget in the near future.

I've heard about tracking problems in the older Leupolds, but had also heard that the new Mark 5s were supposed to be a big improvement in this area. Which series Leupold did you have issues with?

Vortex does very good discounts for mil/LEO/1st responders/firearms instructors. Bushnell does even better for all of these, plus any KRA member - and they often have optics in their outlet shop in KC where anyone can buy at those discounted prices.

Yeah, the Bushnell discount is another reason why they are really appealing to me.

Out of curiosity what is KRA? A Google search brought up a plethora of options, Kansas Realtors Association seeming the most likely?

 

[Varminterror]

Kansas Rifle Association

The DMR II is a great value. If I felt the Razor were that much better, I’d swap scopes.

I have the G3 in my DMR II. My LRHS has the G2H, which nearly matches the G3, but has a “vital ring” around the center, which is REALLY nice for centering up on round steel.

 

[Gtscotty]

Kansas Rifle Association

Ah, that does make more sense, my Google skills failed me. I'm not too far from the North West edge of Kansas, I wonder if they'd let me join?

I think if I went with one of the Bushnells, I'd probably opt for the H59 reticle for the extra hold points. The H59 looks a little cluttered to me, but it seems that plenty of folks that use them like them. I will not be hunting with this scope, so I think the extra hold points would be more beneficial than distracting.

 

[Nature Boy]

I would look at the classified sections on Snipers Hide and Accurate Shooters Forum.

You’d be surprised at the deals you can get on top tier glass in as new condition

I recently bought a like new Nightforce BR for my son’s .223 bolt action for $950

Just a quick perusal of the ASF site and I see several that would be perfect for less than you were planning on spending

http://forum.accurateshooter.com/forums/scopes-optics-sights-rings-bases-etc.19/

 

[Gtscotty]

After doing a bunch of reading and handling the scopes I could get ahold of I settled on the Vortex Razor HD AMG 6-24x50 MRAD. I ordered yesterday so I should have it in hand in 4-6 weeks.

 

[Gtscotty]

I got my FedEx notification yesterday and picked it up at lunch. After fondling it some last night, I'm really impressed. I like everything about it so far, it's probably the single nicest tool/toy I own, the function and finish is excellent. I'm currently waiting on a set of Burris Xtreme Tactical Signature rings, I should have it mounted up and out at the range this weekend. One nice thing about the rings is that you can add extra cant, so I think I'm going to put in another 5 - 10 moa on top of the 20 moa already built into the RPR base.

Pics or it didn't happen I suppose:




Everything in the box

Illumination dial unlocked


Turret locked down

Turret unlocked

 

[Nature Boy]

very nice!

 

[Gtscotty]

very nice!

Thanks! I think it will be a good match for my wants, within the constraints of my budget.

I got the Burris rings and they came in this crazy dry-case like contraption:

Does anyone else have a set of the XTR Signature rings? Are they always packaged like this? Seems like rather extravagant packaging for a $99 set of rings.... It might make a good small first aid kit box for the truck after I get the rings mounted.


The rings themselves are quite nice, I'm still oscillating on whether to use 5 moa or 10 moa cant inserts on the rings themselves. I already have 20 moa on the rail, so I'd be looking at 25 moa (7.4 mil) or 30 moa (8.9 mil) total. The total elevation travel in the scope is 27.5 mils, so I should be ok with a 100 yd zero with either, I just don't want to get too close to the edge of the lense or erector travel and cause problems.

 

[Nature Boy]

I have a set of burris tactical rings, but not the version you have with the alignment inserts.

I don’t use mine anymore because the wouldn’t stay tight. Let me know how yours do once you get some rounds down range

 

[Varminterror]

All of the Burris XTR Signature Zee tings come in that case. Pretty good deal to get the dry case for free, if you are in need of such things.

 

[Skylerbone]

Throw your spare batteries in there and keep them in your range bag. I’ve found inexpensive mini first-aid kits at Walgreens that are gasketed plastic, not any bigger than that Burris box, and cheap. Tourniquets and quick clot already come in hermetically sealed bags and also accompany me when shooting.

Edited to add, it may just be the picture but you’d be happier with that Citizen if it were riding a half inch higher up on you wrist. Also wanted to say congratulations on the new rig, looking forward to a report.

 

[RussellC]

I have a set of those. Mine stay tight but the multiple tightening screws ( 3 each side )were sort of a pain. I thought it would be good if I tightened them like head bolts on an auto engine, but tighten one, another loosens! once all were snug, hasn't given me any problems loosening. That said, it is on a .223 bolt rifle, not much recoil.

Russellc

 

[Flatbush Harry]

I have a Razor Gen 1 5-20x50 mounted with a Spuhr unitary base that I picked up at Mile High Shooting Accessories. The scope is $1,699 and they throw in the Spuhr base at no additional cost. Their service is impeccable.

https://www.milehighshooting.com/vo...r-hd-5-20x50-ebr-2b-moa-includes-spuhr-mount/

 

[Gtscotty]

Well in a somewhat embarrassing update, I mounted the AMG to my RPR and took it to the range the weekend before last. I was trying out some new loads in new brass (Starline) as well as checking POI on my hunting rifles at the 300 yd berm. I had the rifle sitting empty on its bipod on the bench next to me while I was working with another rifle when all of a sudden I heard a big crash.

I looked over and saw that the rifle had been blown over by a gust of wind (Wyoming), tumbled off the table and fell 3 feet onto the concrete. That's never happened to me with any of my other rifles or much cheaper scopes....

The rifle muzzle thread protector and bolt handle took the brunt of the impact, but the front scope cap and windage turret also got whacked. I'm not certain, but I think that it may have gotten knocked off to the left, could have been the mounts, or honestly even the wind, it had picked up by that time and I only had a handful of rounds left. Either way, rather than worry about it during the load development I've got planned, I elected to send it back for Vortex to go through it. They sent an email informing me that they'd received it and that it was in the system on Wednesday. I imagine I'll probably get word from them this week, I sure would have been much more upset had I not known I had a good warranty to lean on.

I have a set of burris tactical rings, but not the version you have with the alignment inserts.

I don’t use mine anymore because the wouldn’t stay tight. Let me know how yours do once you get some rounds down range

I've had my SWFA SS 3-15 in a set of the non-insert Burris rings on the RPR for the past few years and they've treated me well. I'm not sure I like the inserts yet, there is quite a bit of adjustment in the orientation of the inserts. I used 5 moa of cant and installed the scope before I went to the range. When I actually got to bore sighting, I realized that I didn't have all the can't I was supposed to, and also the scope was off to the right by 3-4 mils... I think that with these rings I won't be able to really finalize scope install before I get to the range. I suppose i'll tilt the scope to get close to a zero while the rings are loose, then tighten down and fine tune with the turrets... Not sure I like that, but when torqued they seem solid.

Edited to add, it may just be the picture but you’d be happier with that Citizen if it were riding a half inch higher up on you wrist. Also wanted to say congratulations on the new rig, looking forward to a report.

Titanium and Sapphire glass, the only way to fly, I love it. My wife got me this watch as a replacement engagement gift after the original Seiko was struck by the arm of a cam-over skeet thrower and erupted all of its tiny parts into the surrounding grass a year or so ago. The fit's not perfect, but I can't stand a tight watch and the current setting is one link looser than annoying.

I have a set of those. Mine stay tight but the multiple tightening screws ( 3 each side )were sort of a pain. I thought it would be good if I tightened them like head bolts on an auto engine, but tighten one, another loosens! once all were snug, hasn't given me any problems loosening. That said, it is on a .223 bolt rifle, not much recoil.

Tightening the 6 screws was kind of a pain, like you said, when one gets to the right torque, another gets loose. Vortex says not to go over 18 in-lbs on ring torque, so having to take the fat wrench back to all the screws multiple times was a bit nerve wracking. I finally got them to pop over the fat wrench set at 15 lbs hopefully multiple visits to each screw didn't drive the actual torque over the limit.

 

[Gtscotty]

Just got the FedEx notification for a package from Vortex due on Weds. Less than a 4 work day turnaround, pretty snappy!

 

[Skylerbone]

Glad to hear about the quick turnaround. Almost cried for you but remembered I don’t cry and remembered you bought a Vortex. Good on them, sorry your range day got a bit sideways.

 

[Skylerbone]

Glad to hear about the quick turnaround. Almost cried for you but remembered I don’t cry and remembered you bought a Vortex. Good on them, sorry your range day got a bit sideways.

 

[IndianaBoy]

Nice optic!!!

 

[Gtscotty]

Well I got my scope back yesterday, and couldn't be more pleased with Vortex. They repaired the ill effects of my stupidity, replaced the banged up windage turret cap and objective lense cover and even threw in a second free hat!


One thing I forgot to mentioned in my last post, but that I noticed at the range, and asked Vortex to fix as well was that the indicator line on the scope body didn't line up as well as it should have with the elevation turret hashes. They also straightened this out and now things line up perfectly.


I'll probably be out hunting for elk most weekends for the next month, but will try to post up a better review of the actual features and range function once I get a chance to take the rig back out.

 

[Gtscotty]

With all my hunting done for the year, I was able to re-mount the AMG and get it back out to the range yesterday. It was a relatively still day, so once I reestablished zero I was able to make first round hits at 400yds, 800 yds and 1,020 yds, the tracking seems to be good.

BLUF: I love this scope, pretty much everything about it.

It was much windier and there was much more mirage the first time I took it out, this time I got to see how it performs under better conditions.

Picture of it all set up at the range.


I hesitate to post through-scope pictures taken by hand with my cheap cell phone, just keep in mind that the image and reticle clarity were much better in person.

400yds @ 6x


400yds @ 24x


800yds @ 24x


1,020 @ 24x



I don't know if I'm as happy with the rings. It was a pain to get the scope remounted, leveled and situated at the proper eye relief with the inserts grabbing the scope body and making all adjustments more difficult. I put the 10 moa insert in the front, and was able to get 18.4 mils of total elevation out of the scope. On the downside, the scope at the center of its travel was 2.7 mils off horizontally... Seems like a lot, my last setup on this rifle was much closer, I'm thinking the inserts must be not exactly uniform horizontally. I was able to zero the scope and still had the full 5 mils of adjustment left and right, so I'm going to run these rings for a while, possibly getting something less fidgety later.

Edit: edited the pictures to hopefully make them a little clearer.