Minnesota, German (H&K) companies fighting over new weapon

[Aim1]

Shouldn't they have thought about this before they partnered?





http://www.fox9.com/news/233155258-story

Minnesota, German companies fighting over new weapon

By: Ted Haller UPDATED:FEB 01 2017 10:25PM CST

A Minnesota company is fighting with a German company over money, and the issue of war crimes.

Orbital ATK, based in Minnesota, and Heckler & Koch, based in Germany, worked together on a weapon for the military that allows soldiers to fire a 25mm round that explodes at a preset distance. The weapon, called the XM25, is intended to target enemies who are hiding, like behind a brick wall.

However, the project started to go sour with delays in shipments. ATK accused H&K of delays, and H&K raised concerns about the weapon possibly violating international laws of war.

According to a civil complaint, H&K’s lawyers believed the XM25 could violate the St. Petersburg Declaration of 1868, signed after Russia developed a projectile that exploded upon impact with soft surfaces. The agreement banned combustible or explosive projectiles under 400 grams.

 

[Deanimator]

I used to know somebody fairly famous who used to work for H&K. He had a fairly low opinion of their "business ethics".

Between this and the HK-36 debacle, I'd wouldn't touch them with a ten foot pole... as probably would a ten foot Pole.

 

[Panzerschwein]

The XM25 is not a safe weapon. One blew the face off a U.S. soldier and they were withdrawn from service.

 

[MosinT53Hunter]

So, to put it bluntly, the XM25 shoots a "dum dum" round, an exploding round as I recall? If I am wrong, its the conclusion I came to after reading the article. Is that why HK is against it?

 

[entropy]

It is a grenade round designed to explode at a preset distance; the development scenario for it entailed being able to attack enemies ensconced behind cover-say a four foot wall they're crouching behind. Instead of hitting the wall with a 40mm round first, this could be shot to go over the wall and detonate just above their heads, if the range were estimated right. Basically a solution to a problem not often enough presented. There are other concerns beside range estimation, as mentioned in the article. Collateral damage? Who else is behind that wall beside the Tangos?

 

[Destructo6]

There are other concerns beside range estimation, as mentioned in the article. Collateral damage?

The range estimation isn't done in the user's head. The weapon has a built in laser rangefinder.

So, the user lases whatever then enemy is using as cover, or an object nearby, then hits a button to either add or subtract a meter for the optimal detonation of the projectile.

Bad guys hiding behind cover probably happens quite a bit in combat. I don't see collateral damage being any greater than lobbing several 40mm rounds into the same cover. The idea was a small, highly accurate, shot is more effective than several big shots with low accuracy. Smart bomb vs dumb bomb kind of thing.

It's a complicated system, with a lot of electronics and parts. The early projectiles were pretty much built by hand and there were some spectacular failings.

If you recall, this was the upper portion of the now abandoned Objective Individual Combat Weapon (OICW)/XM29. The lower portion was, essentially, a G36. The OICW was envisioned as replacement for the M16 with M203 40mm and would be issued in similar ratios. Projectile problems delayed the project and it was determined that the 20mm launcher and 5.56 kinetic weapon (G36) should be developed separately and later rejoined when problems eliminated. This is where the HK XM8 originated.

Who else is behind that wall beside the Tangos?

I really don't see how this might matter more for this weapon than an alternative, such as a mortar, to eliminate the same sort of target.

 

[Tirod]

As usual the pubic's erroneous concept of a dum dum round pops up. Those are solid projectile with expanding tips meant to disrupt a lot of tissue on contact. In the late 1800's surgeons could 't keep up with repairing the injuries. It was thought the wounds were damaging more than needed to stop a soldier.

Subsequent to that the Hague convention outlawed it. THE U.S. DID NOT SIGN THE AGREEMENT. It doesn't apply to us. Have we continued to use FMJ projectiles since, yes, because the tactical application was to penetrate the same cover that the enemy was hiding behind. This exploding round circumvents that by detonating behind the cover. You shoot over it. As said, same as a mortar round. It's just a direct fire version of the same intent with a programmed proximity sensor.

And to further reinforce the point about the dum dum bullets and the Hague, the new M17 pistol contract including the ammo to be issued will have both Ball and hollowpoint bullets. That was already vetted by JAG back in the 1980's - those of us serving at the time remember it, but the public? Never got the memo and still repeats the fake news about the "Geneva" or "Hague" requirements. The US has selectively issued hollowpoints to snipers for decades. The workaround is to make them for the specific purpose of aerodynamic efficiency. And that is exactly what the Sierra Matchking does.

As for HK fighting over the contract they are told what to do by the liberal German government. They tell HK who they can sell to and impose sanctions on them if third parties contract sales to countries on the ban list. If anything its a liberal anti gunners paradise.