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(MN) Bar Shooting Photos

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by Andrew Rothman, Feb 23, 2004.

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  1. Andrew Rothman

    Andrew Rothman Member

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    http://www.twincities.com/multimedia/twincities/
    KRT_packages/slideshow/arneliashooting/slideshow.swf

    As our own joelr says on his blog at
    http://www.livejournal.com/users/joelrosenberg/2004/02/23/

    Amen.
     
  2. Andrew Rothman

    Andrew Rothman Member

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    Here's one of the 16 photos:

    [​IMG]
     

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  3. El Tejon

    El Tejon Member

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    How appropriate that the "no guns" sign was legal-pad yellow.:eek:

    Maybe the gun did not see the sign?:uhoh:
     
  4. sturmruger

    sturmruger Member

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    I was just going to post these pics, but I decided that first I should do a search to see if anyone had beat me to the punch. I think it is interesting to see that the gunman is using a one handed hold, and not a two handed weaver stance.
     
  5. goalie

    goalie Member

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    This obviously is a hoax, there are signs posted prohibiting firearms on the property.
     
  6. P95Carry

    P95Carry Moderator Emeritus

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    I was going to make a comment on the perp ...... hmmm ... but not here.

    Just makes you wonder eh ... had someone been carrying and in yellow at least .. this could well have been instead a commendable pool cleanse operation, instead of which someone is taken out.

    Tend to wonder tho re ''innocent bystander'' .. if perp then casually walks out .. sounds much more like a ''hit'' to me.
     
  7. SJG26

    SJG26 member

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    Metal Detector????

    I just realized the reference to--and clear photo of - the airport style metal detector-doorway in the bar!!:what:

    Is this now commonplace in Minn (St. Paul here I think)? I recall all the Minn threads re. the worries of hidden/concealed guns...........I doubt much that the perp is a law-abiding CCW permit holder!!
     
  8. goblue

    goblue Member

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    SJG26--

    With regards to your question about metal detectors being common place in MN (Minneapolis/St. Paul)- I have only seen them at the airport. I have not seen them at the restaurants, bars, movie theaters, sporting venues, or any other place that I would frequent. They may have them in some courthouses, but not all. Of course, I would never enter a place that has a metal detector- that would be a really bad sign.
     
  9. Andrew Rothman

    Andrew Rothman Member

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    Nightclubs and concert venues have commonly "wanded" guests with a portable detector for more than a decade.

    But I've never seen a fixed, permanent gate-style detector except at an airport.

    This is a bar in a rough neighborhood that gets a rough crowd and hosts -- forgive me -- rap music.

    Apparently because of past problems, they have pretty elaborate security -- metal detectors and a lot of cameras.

    Of course, like the police, cameras only help investigate after the fact. They certainly didn't stop this guy. And neither, by the way, did the metal detector.
     
  10. goalie

    goalie Member

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    It is an interesting bar to say the least.

    Rule number one of staying out of trouble: Avoid places where large numbers of stupid people gather and drink. IMO, that includes most bars on the planet.
     
  11. Andrew Rothman

    Andrew Rothman Member

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    It's probably not a "hit."

    The shooter had been drinking there for some time when he and his party were tossed out for bad behavior.

    After the shooter left, Innocent Schmoe came in.

    Immediately after, shooter came back, hosed the whole bar, and happened to hit and kill the poor Innocent Schmoe.

    (Incidentally, there was an off-duty St. Paul cop six feet away. He took no action and fled the scene. Needless to say, an investigation is proceeding. And our joelr has an interesting take on that, too: http://www.livejournal.com/users/joelrosenberg/15908.html
     
  12. twoblink

    twoblink Member

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    Someone forgot to tell the killer a "gun free zone" is suppose to be safer...

    Wait, he knew that! That's why nobody shot back!:banghead: :cuss:
     
  13. KMKeller

    KMKeller Member

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    You can even see beginning in slide 2 where the light on the upper right hand corner of the metal detector goes red...
     
  14. greyhound

    greyhound Member

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    Any editorials using this incident to call for repeal of CCW yet?
    :rolleyes:
     
  15. VaughnT

    VaughnT Member

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    So, what could be done to this "off-duty cop" that was six feet from the shooter and did nothing but run? Can he be fired? Jailed?
     
  16. xenophon

    xenophon Member

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    This thing didn't last that long. Looking at the timestamp on the video,

    frame 1: 1:13:58 am
    frame 14: 1:14:03


    That's like 5 seconds, give or take.

    there's 16 frames, but by frame 14, he has stopped shooting, turned around and was starting to run. That's not much time to react there. I don't think anyone with a guy in a holster could have reacted in time, seeing how there were bullets flying all around. Now if you would have seen the guy walked in from outside, then you could probably pull your weapon in time and have a chance, but not likely when yer in a bar and drinking and chatting it up with your buds. Such a shame.

    x
     
  17. Sven

    Sven Senior Member

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    WOW. That is scary.
     
  18. JoeWang

    JoeWang Member

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    Don't knock the off-duty cop so hard. Would you prefer he got really lit up at a bar, confused two guys looking for change in their car as thieves and pull a hard case on them?

    LEO is a job, we cannot expect everyone to make a 24/7 life out of it. I expect them to do their jobs and not be corrupt. Beyond that is asking too much.
     
  19. Andrew Rothman

    Andrew Rothman Member

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    By Minnesota law, the cop has no obligation to go about his off-duty hours
    with a sidearm or badge. (Read Joel's blog at the link above.)

    Still, to slink away without even staying to be a witness, to calm the crowd, or to render aid to the victim, shows poor character.

    I suspect that they'd throw the book at him, except there is no book on this issue.

    Still, I don't think he'll be getting promoted soon.
     
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