MN Man convicted of smuggling guns into Mexico

[o Unforgiven o]

http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2011/01/25/minnesota-man-gets-3-years-in-gun-smuggling-case/

MINNEAPOLIS (AP) — A 37-year-old Medford man who admitted he illegally purchased more than 100 firearms and smuggled them into Mexico has been sentenced to three years in prison.

In light of this what do you all think could come from it? Does this mean that the "problem" is localized to border states or is it nationwide? I know we all heard about trying to pass new legislation for firearms purchases in border states but do you guys think that the proposed restictions could be applied everywhere now that border states are not the only contributors?

 

[nyrifleman]

How were the guns "purchased illegally"? Based on the short 3-year prison sentence, I kinda doubt he illegally purchased over 100 (!) guns.

Actually, can someone explain to me how this works legally? As far as I know, there are no statutes against transporting guns OUT of the US, so he would only have committed a crime in Mexico, no? This story rings funny to me...

 

[TexasRifleman]

The OP asked if he could post this even though a thread with the same topic was closed earlier.


The idea here is that something productive and pro 2A can come of this discussion. This is a, quite frankly, barely on topic news report as it stands.

The OP believes there are benefits to gun owners from discussing it, so let's find out. Please help with that, thanks! If this turns into media/ATF bash fest it will be gone.

 

[o Unforgiven o]

How were the guns "purchased illegally"? Based on the short 3-year prison sentence, I kinda doubt he illegally purchased over 100 (!) guns.

Actually, can someone explain to me how this works legally? As far as I know, there are no statutes against transporting guns OUT of the US, so he would only have committed a crime in Mexico, no? This story rings funny to me...

The guns were purchased illegally because he made false statements on a 4473 by stating he was the actual purchaser, which clearly he was not. I have to agree with you that 3 years for smuggling 100+ firearms into mexico is an extremely light sentence given the circumstances.

I wonder if the shop/shops he bought them from are facing any charges and whether or not gun shops themselves may be enacting stricter policys on who or how they sell to prevent this and maybe as a measure of covering their butts.

 

[Carl N. Brown]

There are import export laws on firearms and buying guns and smuggling them into a foreign country is not legal.

Authorities say most illegal guns seized in Mexico can be traced back to the U.S

Not Again! According to the U.S. Deprtment of Justice Office of Inspector General Review of Operation Gunrunner, guns seized from the cartels become Mexican federal custody and are held by the Mexican military. ATF complained to the DOJ that they are not allowed to trace most illegal guns, that they are denied access to the guns for tracing unless they can describe a specific gun by its serial number (and if they already had that, they would not need access to the gun to trace it). The guns they are allowed to trace are a fraction of the guns seized in Mexico.

Some gunrunning from the US to Mexico takes place, but look at the displays of weapons seized in Mexican drug violence: even without serial numbers, it is obvious they were not bought at WalMart in Minnesota. Rocket launchers, belt fed machine guns, full automatic assault rifles, submachine guns, hand grenades. there is a reason Mexican officials told the DOJ OIG that they did not expect to gain much from ATF traces on the seized crime guns: the vast majority are obviously not US origin. One guy in Minnesota does not change that.

 

[hirundo82]

I have to agree with you that 3 years for smuggling 100+ firearms into mexico is an extremely light sentence given the circumstances.

The only circumstance in which that is an appropriate sentence is if the DOJ agreed to turn him over to the Mexicans for prosecution there once he has served his sentence in the US.

On second thought, turn him over to them now and save the taxpayers the cost of housing him for the next 3 years.

 

[TexasRifleman]

The guns they are allowed to trace are a fraction of the guns seized in Mexico.

Oh, I think the quote "most guns seized in Mexico come from the US" is accurate, but what they don't tell us is that many of them came to be in Mexico through a DoD/State Department transfer.

 

[GambJoe]

Seems the punishment should fit the crime a little harder than this. Has the FBI come up with any statistics on how guns get to the streets. I have heard people say things like from most crime commited with guns are done by legally owned guns :banghead: to crimminals get their guns illegally ( stealing? straw purchases? ) but nothing seems to back them up.

 

[Carl N. Brown]

US NIJ Felon Survey of 1,874 convicts in 18 prisons in 10 different states asked felons who used guns how they got their guns. Theft, purchase from fences or burglars, used guns bought from private parties, guns obtained from friends or relatives. Legal purchases were the least important and were usually done through a relative or friend with no criminal record.

James D. Wright and Peter Rossi, "Armed and Considered Dangerous", (Aldine 1986, 2nd ed 2008, ISBN-13: 978-0202362427), is their commercial write up of their report on the felon survey for the government. Wright and Rossi started as truebelievers in the standard liberal academic position on gun control (all good) and private guns (all bad) but their research changed their minds.

 

[Carl N. Brown]

a little more digging

James D. Wright: the felons surveyed "obtain guns in hard-to-regulate ways from hard-to-regulate sources. . . Swaps, purchases, and trades among private parties (friends and family members) represent the dominant pattern of acquisition within the illicit firearms market." Criminals simply are not likely to go to legal sources, such as gun shops, sporting goods stores or pawnbrokers.

Handgun using felons expected to be able to get handguns from "unregulated channels": friends (mostly fellow criminals), from "the street" (used guns from strangers), from fences or the blackmarket or drug dealers (who often run guns along with drugs). Of gun using felons, 50% expected to unlawfully purchase a gun through unregulated channels; 25% expected to be able to borrow a gun from a fellow criminal, and about 12% expected to steal a gun. 7% cited licensed gun dealers and 6% cited pawnshops (usually through a surrogate buyer, family member or lover).

Some results of the felon survey, according to Wright and Rossi:
81% will try to determine if a potential victim is armed.
57% said that they had encountered potential victims who were armed.
40% had been deterred from a crime because they believed the victim was armed.
34% said that they had been scared off, shot at, wounded, or captured by an armed citizen.
74% indicated that burglars avoided occupied dwellings, because of fear of being shot.
57% said that most criminals feared armed citizens more than they feared police.
88% agreed that, a criminal who wants a handgun is going to get one in spite of the laws.

a link to the author's summation: http://www.rkba.org/research/wright/armed-criminal.summary.html

As Gary Kleck has pointed out there is, so far, no well organized monolithic "black market" in guns comparable to the black market that developed in alcohol after prohibition in 1919. The black market in guns today--fences dealing in stolen goods from burglars, etc.--is unorganized and small time.

 

[razorback2003]

Export

There are certain laws as far as exporting firearms. The guy probably was convicted of some of those laws. To take your gun to another country, you have to fill out a piece of paper for when you come back into the States through Customs to declare the gun that you exported. Gun manufacturers, dealers, and distributors have to be in compliance with the ATF, State Department, and no telling who else to export firearms the proper way to foreign countries.

 

[Sebastian the Ibis]

How were the guns "purchased illegally"? Based on the short 3-year prison sentence, I kinda doubt he illegally purchased over 100 (!) guns.

Because he is a snitch! Nothing wrong with that, that's how the cops catch serious bad guys. I wish the Brady bunch understood how much of a resource law abiding gun store owners are, and let drug smugglers essentially identify themselves and turn themselves in by buying Ak 47s by the dozen.

Same goes for all those people that made Amazon drop that pedophiles for dummies book. I'm sure the FBI was investigating each and every person that ordered one of those, until those do-gooders made amazon stop letting pedophiles self identify themselves as such to the federal authorities