I have a S&W Model 41 (1997: Ser. No. UBV5xxx), which only has about 500 rounds through it, mostly in the last 2 months. It is very accurate. It has had problems with all ammo, but works best with CCI SV or Fiocchi. I have alternated magazines. I never purposely dry fired it. However, with all of the misfires (failure to eject, stovepipes, etc.), even with the CCI SV, it appears that the breech face is being damaged (see pictures) on both my 5-1/2” barrel and my new-to-me 5” field barrel!!! Therefore, I have stopped shooting the gun. What’s going on? What should I do?
Model 41 – Damage or Normal?
- Thread starter upacreekk
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Looks like you've been dry firing it. Don't do that with ANY .22. The dimples above the bore are from the firing pin hitting the chamber without a cartridge being there. If you'll look at your firing pin, you'll probably see damage there, too. If it still chambers and fires ok, it should be all right. If there's enough damage to make chambering difficult, the you'll need to have the chamber ironed out.
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
The bolt face impressin on the rear of the barrel is normal break-in wear.
The dent in the chamber edge is not normal, as by design, a Model 41 firing-pin cannot hit the chamber.
They were designed from the getgo as NRA Bullseye Target pistols.
As such they were designed to be dry-fired indefinately without damageing them.
SO, ignore the bolt face impression. It is a normal break-in mark.
It will stop soon and not get any worse.
The firing pin dent, if thats what it is, is another matter.
That isn't normal, even if you dry-fire 5,000 times a day from now on.
I would call S&W customer service and have them take a look at it.
rc
The dent in the chamber edge is not normal, as by design, a Model 41 firing-pin cannot hit the chamber.
They were designed from the getgo as NRA Bullseye Target pistols.
As such they were designed to be dry-fired indefinately without damageing them.
SO, ignore the bolt face impression. It is a normal break-in mark.
It will stop soon and not get any worse.
The firing pin dent, if thats what it is, is another matter.
That isn't normal, even if you dry-fire 5,000 times a day from now on.
I would call S&W customer service and have them take a look at it.
rc
Wow. I am surprised to see that. Change in design? Drop in quality control?
I was ALWAYS told, even by a woman in the S&W shop in Houlton, ME (she wasn't the smith, but said that is how she also understood it to be), that you can dry fire the 41.
I was ALWAYS told, even by a woman in the S&W shop in Houlton, ME (she wasn't the smith, but said that is how she also understood it to be), that you can dry fire the 41.
cerberus65
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btw, that's not the breech face you're showing in the pictures. The breech face is the flat surface behind the case (that pushes the round into the chamber). The firing pin pokes out from the breech face to strike the primer - in the case of the 41, the edge of the rimfire case that has the priming compound in it. What you're showing is the peening at the edge of the chamber. The peening is caused by the firing pin being pushed out by being struck by the hammer but there's no brass rim there to squish and stop. So the firing pin hits the edge of the chamber. Not only is this bad for the firing pin it's clearly bad for the edge of the chamber. Once the metal is peened a bit extraction problems are sure to show up because the opening of the chamber is no longer completely round.
Never dry-fire a .22! There might be some sophisticated system in some exotic gun somewhere that would allow you to dry-fire without risking firing pin/chamber edge contact but I haven't heard of it. In general, center-fire guns are safe to dry fire but read the manual! I have at least one that says not to. I have to assume there's some corners cut in the design that allow the firing pin to make contact with something in the firing pin channel when dry-fired.
I'm sure Smith&Wesson will get you fixed up. The 41 is a great gun. Good luck and enjoy!
Never dry-fire a .22! There might be some sophisticated system in some exotic gun somewhere that would allow you to dry-fire without risking firing pin/chamber edge contact but I haven't heard of it. In general, center-fire guns are safe to dry fire but read the manual! I have at least one that says not to. I have to assume there's some corners cut in the design that allow the firing pin to make contact with something in the firing pin channel when dry-fired.
I'm sure Smith&Wesson will get you fixed up. The 41 is a great gun. Good luck and enjoy!
JohnBT
Member
For one, Kimber .22 rimfire rifles can be dry fired according to Kimber. I believe their .22 lr conversion kit for pistols can be too. JT
They make snap-caps in .22 RF that make it safe to dry fire (www.brownells.com). You can also dry fire if you insert a fired case into the chamber that has part of the rim filed back so the extractor won't pick it up when you cycle the side. Use a rod to eject the case when you're done.
In the present pistol the firing pin is too long, and needs to be slightly shortened or replaced (maybe both) - which you should let S&W do.
In the present pistol the firing pin is too long, and needs to be slightly shortened or replaced (maybe both) - which you should let S&W do.
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
I have my early Model 41 I used while shooting for 5th. Army AMU in 1968-70.
I have two barrels for it.
Both barrels have been dry-fired too many times to even give a good estimate of the number, but it is huge.
Neither barrel has a FP dent in the chamber.
And the gun still has the orginial firing pin it started out with.
Apparently, the "new" Model 41 is not the same gun as the old Model 41 if S&W says not to dry-fire them now!!
Like I said in post #3, the older ones could be dry-fired till the cows come home without damage.
And an awful lot of them were!
rc
True, but I've seen Ruger's with dinged chambers...
Happens if a tolerance stack goes the wrong way.
The cure (if necessary) is to push the pin all of the way forward and then stone it until the front end is flush with the bolt face.
Hardly a "sophisticated system in some exotic gun somewhere that would allow you to dry-fire without risking firing pin/chamber edge contact but I haven't heard of it" though.
Tolerance stack occurs in many designs, and if a correct tolerance analysis and manufacturing are followed it should not be an issue.
Hours are spent on tolerance analysis of some designs (think jet and rocket engines, even aircraft piston engines) to make sure over use and life things operate correctly.
Maintenance intervals are often driven by tolerance and wear.
The effort expended is driven by the consequences of a failure.
saltydog452
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M 41 or M 46?
If I remember right, the M 46 was a less expensive version of the M 41. Finish and QC were a bit relaxed on the 46.
Brain cells are taxed, but I seem to recall that dry firing was frowned upon with the High Stds and the 46, but not the 41.
Not that it mattered much as the High Stds and 41-46s and their mags were shipped off the Jim Clark for his MoJo magic and blessing.
Could the new 41 be a re-make of the older 46?
salty
If I remember right, the M 46 was a less expensive version of the M 41. Finish and QC were a bit relaxed on the 46.
Brain cells are taxed, but I seem to recall that dry firing was frowned upon with the High Stds and the 46, but not the 41.
Not that it mattered much as the High Stds and 41-46s and their mags were shipped off the Jim Clark for his MoJo magic and blessing.
Could the new 41 be a re-make of the older 46?
salty
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