More on my quest for the "perfect" carry revolver (how about a 4")

[chaim]

Hmmm, since it is looking more likely that I may soon be in a carry state next fall (still around 50/50, but that is at least a 50% chance and it is coming closer time wise so...) so I've been thinking alot lately about carry guns.

Some of you have been privy to my thought process about my ideal carry gun.

You may have noticed how much I love the 3" .38 or .357 K-frame for this purpose. Handy, good sight radius, a bit lighter than the 4", good practical accuracy for most people, etc. I had also identified the basic modifications I want to make it MY ideal carry revolver: trigger job, probably chamfered and polished chambers, certainly Secret Service boot grips, certainly a bobbed hammer and DAO job, a matte finish (either blued or stainless), possible sights modifications (night sights or a front dot/bead).

Well, I don't want to cut on my S&W 65LS since it was my first .357 so there is some sentimental value there. I also didn't want to overly limit my options (3" Ks aren't exactly rare but they aren't the most common either) so that I could get my best overall deal (good quality AND price) so I was thinking about keeping my options open: stainless, blue, .38 or .357. Then I asked around here about the 2 1/2" K-frames and they seem like a possibility.

However, I've neglected the other direction.

Who here owns, owned or at least has first hand familiarity with 3" K-frames and carries a 4" K-frame instead?

How handy and carriable is the 4" after all (I'm not sure it would be at all bad)?

It seems to me that it would be a minor compromise over the 3" but it wouldn't be too much of a compromise. A couple extra oz., still very easy to carry IWB (I am 5'11", 250lbs, and when I lose all I want to lose I'll still be 200lbs because I am thickly built), not too difficult to carry OWB concealed. You also gain some: even better sight radius/practical accuracy, more common (thus more choices and likely a lower price). Heck, this would open up a NEW Taurus 82 as a very realistic option (at under $300 new it wouldn't be overly expensive as a customization platform and thus I wouldn't need to wait for the perfect used platform to keep prices reasonable).

So how would a 4" w/ the boot grips, trigger job, DAO and bobbed hammer, etc. work as a "near ideal" carry revolver?

 

[Old Fuff]

A thought:

Since you want to build a customized revolver that includes a new front sight ......

And since 3" guns often cost more then the more common 4" ones ......


Consider buying a 4" S&W K-Frame with a heavy barrel. Shoot it a bit to see what you think, and if you want a shorter length between 3" to 4" have it cut and a new front sight mounted. There is enough metal in the rib so a dovetail can be cut, and a front sight of the kind usually used on pistols mounted. Drive the sight in the dovetail to adjust for windage, and the correct height can be determined by measuring the original one. I believe that S&W's Performance Center has done this before. A glow-in-the-dark bead would not present a problem.

I have a model 13 3"/RB (The so-called FBI gun) and like it. but a 4" with compact grips is no harder to carry.

 

[WebHobbit]

My thoughts on the matter:

1) Forget the Taurus idea. Get a S&W. Trust me in the long run you will probably always regret not getting "the real thing" anyway.

2) Get a 686. To my knowledge S&W never really did beef the Ks up for lots of Magnum use. In fact I'm pretty sure any of the all-steel J-frame Magnums may well take it better than the Ks!

3) 4 inch should be OK. As soon as my holster arrives I plan to start carrying my 686 4 inch "when I can" and my trusty 640 "when I can't".

 

[surfinUSA]

The real hinderence to concealed carry of a 4 inch revolver is the square butt frame. I understand that the newer ones all have round butts no matter what barrel length, so that isn't an issue especially with the secret service pattern grips.

Go for the K frame and not the L frame. The L frame is big and heavy even in a 2 1/2 inch barrel length.

The k frame is alot stronger than many of the internet armchair commandos make it out to be. Those of us that have actually had these guns for any length of time know that they will handle alot more magnum rounds than many that have never owned one give them credit for.

The L frame wasn't a total marketing gimmick on the part of S&W (it does everything it was supposed to) but the K frame magnums never had the number of problems that would have justified a whole new handgun line. Thats why S&W still makes and sells a ton of K frame magnums and they are still so popular with the public.

Go with the lighter K frame and you won't be sorry you did. Forget the Taurus if you absolutely can't get a Smith go with a Ruger.

 

[DennisE]

Go with a S&W 2.5 to 3" K-Frame (Forget Taurus!). My 2.5" M66 light DA trigger (after trigger job), points great, is very accurate out to 15+ yards, is 100% reliable and easy to CCW. A 3" barrel swaps some advantages and disadvantages but is basically just as doable. IMHO a 4" can be done, but is getting 'bothersomely big - many times you'll find yourself less likely to carry it than the 2.5". Dennis

 

[JPM70535]

I totally agree, go with the Smith. I have carried both the 2-1/2" and 4" model 66 off duty and truthfully I never found any difference in concealability or comfort of carry. The only thing I did with the 4" was to install a set of the thinnest grips I could find to help compensate for the square butt. Either way you can't go wrong.

 

[braindead0]

I wouldn't write off the Taurus, we've put around 5000 rounds through my wifes Tracker in the last year and not a single hickup. Shoots great, nice trigger....

That being said, it's probably not the best 'platform' for customization, you'll find more people who will work on a S&W or Ruger...

Thought about an SP-101? ;-)

 

[yotehunter]

I for one would not rule out the Taurus, I own a couple and they are very nice. I also own a couple S&W's and they are nice too.
In the past few years Taurus has really gotten it together and have come up with some nice revolvers.
I know all the horror stories about Taurus but I have had a couple of my own with almost all makes and never a Taurus. Either way you go you cant go wrong. I carry a 3 inch 629 and have just purchased a 329PD. Its got the 4 inch barrel.
I havent found a holster for it yet but im looking for a IWB for it.

 

[Brian Williams]

I have carried my S&W mod 65 4" and it was annoying that every time I sat down either my wallet or the seat belt connector pushed the square butt into my side. I have a mod 13-4 3" "FBI" with Ajax grips that is a great carry Self Defence gun. If you are thinking 3" look at the mod 60 with a 3" barrel and adjustable sights, the front sight is pinned in and could be replaced fairly easily.

OBTW my mod 13 cost only $300 otd and the only thing I did or will do to it was change the grips and a lot of dry firing.

 

[MR.G]

My 686 plus, 7 shot, with 2-1/2" barrel and boot grips makes a nice carry gun. Will even fit in the front pocket of some pants. Very nice trigger since I installed Wolf springs and polished the internals. Came with nice factory adjustable sights, and I added the white outline blade to my rear sight. The whole gun has been polished and it looks like bright nickel. Powerful, durable, and compact.

 

[JohnK]

The 686 that has been suggested is a good one, but I would go with a fixed sight gun for CCW. I've carried my GP100 with adjustable sights fairly often but found that the sharp rear sight was very easy to snag on clothing which really slowed down the draw, and was generally a pain in the rear.

65, 686, GP100, Tracker, I'd go with any of them as long as it had fixed sights.

 

[Z_Infidel]

As a follow-up to the comment regarding fixed vs adjustable sights, there are replacement sights available for both Ruger and S&W revolvers that will make them far less likely to snag on clothing and also less prone to breakage.

 

[Johnny Guest]

chaim, looks as if you've pretty much ruled out the Colt D-frame - - -

- - -for a carry piece. Personal preference is a powerful influence, and YOU should certainly go with the piece with which YOU would be most satisfied.

I'd prefer the Colt Police Positive Spl or a 3" Detective Special for daily carry due to weight and size. I assume this is why you are tending toward the K frame S&W rather than the L frame. There is a LOT more bulk and weight in the L frame than in the K, perhaps as much difference as between the Colt D and the S&W K.

All of which said - - -
The 3" K frame is one of the best all-around compromise carry pieces ever. As stated above, the K frame is very durable. It will stand up to full power standard .38 Special loads indefinitely, and to +P .38s almost as long.

The 3" models 13, 65, and 10 (yes, there were some made) all share an advantage over the 2-1/2" models 19 and 66: a full length extractor stroke, and will clear the cases efficiently. The short 19 and 66 with the under barrel shroud don't have the full stroke. Likewise, the shroud adds a small but significant amount of weight to the revolver.
I believe S&W is missing a bet in not offering a lightweight version of the M65 3". They do it with the J-frames, why not in the larger K frame? Current alloys would support the pressures of the .357 ctg. The larger grip frame would surely be more comfortable in handling the magnum recoil.

Oh, well, I quit buying new production S&Ws a few years ago . . . .

As to your question about the four-inch as a carry piece - - -
surfinUSA nailed the main concealment issue there--The square butt makes it difficult to stock a K frame for ideal concealment. The RB frame is MUCH more amenable to such. Since you contemplate certain modifications anyhow, consider this: Four-inch 65s are easier to locate than the 3". Stainless is the same color all the way through. While you're bobbing the hammer and the rest, why not make a round butt? Get a pair of factory RB stocks at a gun show to give you the exact pattern, and go to it. This is a do-it-yourself project if you have minimal skills. (Mine are VERY minimal, and I've done it. ) All it takes is a proper vise, hacksaw, a couple of new files, and, hopefully, a hand grinder. Then you can fit the proper RB stocks to it.

If you have a gun smith perform the mods for you, you might wish to cut the barrel to 3" at the same time. Sure, you're now in the process of spending a fair amount of money, but hey, it's ONLY money, and there's nothing like having a tool that fits YOU personally.

Keep us informed on your progress.

Best,
Johnny

 

[WebHobbit]

My Old World Leather Holster finally arrived today! So I tried out carrying my 686 4 inch.

Here is a picture of me wearing it:

I had it with me on my wife and I's daily walk around the neighborhood. Worked out just fine. I was using a denim vest as covering garment. It's heavier than my regular carry gun (640) but if you have a good strong belt (like my Dickies in the picture) it's not bad at all.

BTW, I got this holster for about 13 bucks from a clearance sale at http://www.michaels-oregon.com/.



Also I was a bit concerned that the 4 inch might be painful/uncomfortable when sitting but I just tried it and it's fine. NO discomfort at all. This is a pretty high-riding rig though.

 

[MR.G]

WebHobbit,
You must have got the last black 4" Old World pancake holster from the clearance section. I ordered one and was notified that the black was gone, and that they only had brown. Hate brown holsters, but for $12.80 I took one. Got it yesterday. They do ride really high, but does a good job concealing my 4" 686 plus under a shirt.

 

[Dave Markowitz]

Chaim,

If you can find one, a 3-inch J-frame is nice. I really like my early Smith & Wesson Model 640 with the 3" tube.

 

[riddleofsteel]

Four inch .45 Colt S&W Mountain Gun in a Kramer belt scabbard. Actually quite comfortable and it does conceal well with a over garment.

 

[Stainz]

I haven't found a good OWB holster yet, but my latest CCW may interest you. The S&W 296 (.44 Spcl) is available for less than $400 closeout (dropped in 2001!) - my local dealer has one for $349! Loaded with five 200gr CCI Blazer GDJHP .44 Specials, it weighs in ~21 oz. An L frame with a 2.5" barrel, it is hammerless and has fixed sights - great for fast retrieval from clothing. The boot grips had to go - bigger ones were needed for me. Neat shooter.

Stainz

 

[Poohgyrr]

There are lots of ways to go here, all depending on what you are happy with. That's the good news. The other news is you have to make a choice .

Depending on what you want, that lightweight hard kicking .44 Special may not be a problem to you. And I CCW'd a 4" 686 for several years without any trouble, it's power & accuracy was very comforting. Those 3" K frames are really nice and I wouldn't feel bad if all I had was a 3" K frame. Many have been comforted by those 4" (and 5" !!!!!) N frames; it can certainly be done- unless you just do not want to .. Some folks enjoy the heck out of their 2" to 3" J frames.

A good holster, belt, and grips are very important and can make all the difference in the world. Best .....

 

[Gordon]

The perfect 4" .44 is the S&W mtn gun. The perfect .357 4" is model 19 or 66. The perfect 4" .38special is the Colt Police Positve Special. Shorter or longer barrels change these formulas for perfection. For daily carry its hard to beat a 26oz Colt Police positive special with 158grain +p LSWCHP's BUT if you want light and Magnum force piece then 296 or 396 with more HP and less weight are IT. Of course the scandium .357 snubs have the most HP with least weight and size BUT I haven't seen an ultralight that can keep up with a bigger gun in practical accuracy- AND HITS ARE WHAT COUNTS!

 

[gumshoe4]

The new CDNN catalog has Ruger GP100 4" stainless fixed-sight DAO spurless hammer revolvers for sale for about $250.

To me, that's just about the perfect .357 combat revolver. If I could buy one here in California, I'd do it.

I don't think it gets much better than that if you're into round guns.

Bob

 

[Mannlicher]

I carry both a 3 inch Model 65, and a 4 inch Model 19. I think it is easier to carry the 3 inch. I have custom leather for them both, so that is not the difference. Both are square butt. That one inch shorter barrel sure makes a difference.