Most EFFICIENT handgun caliber?

[10 Spot Terminator]

Make mine the 38 special...

Should be capable of handling +P loads to fit this bill like my K14 6

Mouse fart loads of 2.8 grs. of Bullseye and a 148 gr. LWC ( what recoil ? )

100 yd. accuracy load 4.2 grs. of Bullseye and a 160 gr. LRN ( 4 in. group )

162 gr. LSWCHP behind 7.2 grs. HS6 @ 1000+ fps ( Bad guy go away load )

145 gr. LSWCHP behind 7.0 grs. HS6 @ 1000+ fps ( accurate varmit load )

Cheap to shoot, pleasant to shoot and very dependable and durable as well. I am sure I could develope other loads as needed but I am happy with these.

 

[popper]

918v do they actually put any powder in a 22 short? I would have figured the 9mm Luger as it was developed as a 150 yd machine gun round.

 

[GW Staar]

Awe shoot, late for the party!
Efficiency?......efficient at what?
I'm not going to consider anything below 9mm...period...just not personally interested....okay except for chasing cans, shotgun hulls, and rabbits with a red dot-scoped Ruger 22 target pistol.

• Least # rounds per kill....44 mag or bigger. (if you hit it)
• # rounds per magazine.....9mm
• Best efficiency on killing a drug-crazed enemy running at you in an Afghan cave with an existing service pistol.....45 ACP

Best compromise ...... 40 S&W. My opinion of course.

 

[SDGlock23]

It's not something I've looked at too much, but I do know the .40 S&W is pretty damn efficient. 6.5gr of Unique will shoot a 180gr JHP @ 1180 from a 6" bbl, which is almost 86 ft-lbs per 1gr of powder, or almost 43 ft-lbs per half grain. That's not max for the .40, but it's probably the most efficient load I can think of and it was loaded a little longer, had I loaded it to around 1.120-1.25" it could have hit 1200+ fps. I'm sure the 357 Sig can do similarly in terms of efficiency. I think the .40 is more efficient than the 10mm.

In terms of covering a broad range of options, the .40 does well too. You can load it light for a gamer load or small pest load, have a great selection of high quality factory JHPs, or load to essentially 10mm levels (with an aftermarket bbl) and use it for the woods if you wanted. I've had a number of 10mm's, but I don't think it really offers anything that the .40 doesn't. I mean yeah a hot 10mm has 100-150 fps advantage, but using logic, a 180gr @ 1400 fps (hot 10mm) isn't going to kill anything any deader than a 180gr @ 1300+ fps (warm .40). The .40 case is stronger than the 10mm case ( Clark knows this) and uses less powder to make good numbers compared to the 10mm. If someone likes the 10mm, that's great, it's a fine cartridge, I just don't think it's worth it or as efficient.

 

[Hastings]

SDGlock23

I agree with you on the 40s&w. I have a sentimental attachment to 45colt, but 40s&w is tops in my book. I reload from 155gr on up to 200gr in the 40, with excellent results. I wish they would make a levergun in 40. A nice little Rossi M92 stainless with a 18" barrel would be a very nice woods gun loaded with some WFNGC 200gr hardcast bullets, with a G22 carrying the same as a companion sidearm.

 

[CraigC]

I wish they would make a levergun in 40.

They do and due to its capacity, the .38-40 will beat the stew out of anything the .40S&W can do. Loaded warm in an 1892, 2000fps is easily attainable with 180's. Although the 180gr Gold Dot opens rather quickly at 1450fps.

 

[Hastings]

That's not quite what I meant, but it is interesting. Perhaps I'll have to pick up a 38-40 levergun. It would be convenient to purchase one bullet type/weight for both rifle and handgun. I currently do it with a 45colt Vaquero and Rossi M92, but the 40s&w is a lot less expensive to reload for.


How is the 38-40 for reloading, by the way? You've peaked my curiosity.

Thanks
Hastings

 

[anothernewb]

I'll have to jump on the .38/.357 bandwagon too. If I correctly understand the OP's intent - 38 loads in a solid revolver (like a GP100 or K/N frame) do not kick much at all, and a .357 in a carbine I think gives alot of accuracy, not to mention a 6" revolver along with a lot of energy downrange to the target.

Seems like revolvers last a long time too, but there are many, many 1911's with 5 and 6 figures down the pipe too.. But I'm sticking with the .357 if only for long range target energy/accuracy.

I think ease of handling and firearm longevity have to go to the .22

 

[Pete D.]

By efficient - I am looking for design of case/cartridge, accuracy (both short and far), recoil handling, and ease of wear on the weapon.

Sorry....it is kind of a silly question.....though it has generated three pages of discussion. Despite the attempt at qualifying "efficient", the are still too many variables to approach any kind of definitive answer - though cartridges in the caliber range of .355 - .357 appear most frequently.
How far is far? What is the intended use? Who is doing the using? What gun is being used?

918v do they actually put any powder in a 22 short?

Yes, they do. The lowly .22 Short is the oldest of the commercial metallic cartridges. Originally, it was loaded with four grains of something like modern FFFFg black powder. Nowadays....about 0.8 of a grain of a very fine grained canister powder (HV).

9mm Luger development... 150 yard machine gun round?
The cartridge, notice the name, was introduced in 1902 with the Luger automatic pistol. The first sub machine guns were not developed until later in WWI.

 

[Hastings]

I don't think the question is silly. I agree that choosing a cartridge purely because it is efficient is a rather odd way to pick a firearm, but there is another side to the question.

Take Glocks, S&W revolvers, and Browning Hi Powers. In the first two types (Glock and S&W revolvers) the size of the firearm is directly tied to the cartridge size. The J-frame and K-frame revolvers are much better for a CCW than an L, N, or X frame. In each frame size there is a fairly small range of cartridge options. If you can squeeze the most efficiency out of a cartridge it often means it is as small in case size as is possible for the caliber and bullet weight range. This translates to being able to fit the cartridge into a smaller firearm.

This is especially true with the Glock 37. I know there is not much of a fan-base for the 45GAP cartridge, but I think it is also true that there is a big fan-base for 45cal handguns. Many people find the Glock 21 to be overly large in the grip area, and it is certainly a thick pistol as well - challenging to carry in anything other than a duty or open-carry holster unless you wear parkas year-round. The Glock 30 is much smaller, but still pretty thick. By taking the 45acp cartridge and shortening it to the 45GAP dimensions, Glock was able to fit the cartridge into the G17/G22 size platform and even offer the G39 - which is a pretty small 45cal handgun.

I mentioned the Hi Power. I've owned both the 9mm and the 40s&w versions and I think the 9mm version is perfection while the 40cal is nice but can't hold a candle to the balance and feel of the 9mm. I've often wondered what the limit would be on upping the velocity and/or diameter of the cartridge in the 9mm version of the Hi Power without having to change the slide thickness, frame size, ...etc. Could you fit a 38 Super into the Hi-Power, and what would that be like? I like 9mm, but more velocity or larger diameter would be nice without loosing the balance and pointability of the original package.

I know this is long-winded, but many of our current handgun cartridges were born in the black powder era or designed to match black powder cartridge performance. Some of these have way more case capacity than necessary. Consequently, many of our current handguns are designed around cartridge lengths that are needlessly longer then they need to be. I'd love to see a totally new cartridge/handgun pairing that wasn't based on a parent cartridge or bullet diameter, but on a more holistic vision grounded in current powder capability, bullet design technology, handgun ergonomics, and performance.

If you made it to the end of this dissertation, thanks for persisting. To sum up, I think questions related to cartridge efficiency can help lead to new cartridge and firearms development and that excites me.

Thanks

 

[CraigC]

How is the 38-40 for reloading, by the way? You've peaked my curiosity.

Despite warnings to the contrary by those who have never done it, it is quite easy to load for. The only real disadvantage is that you have to lube cases. I use John Taffin's suggestion of just wiping a very light film of oil on the cases, rather than spray lubing. You just have to be careful seating bullets and crimping. Due to the very thin case necks, it is easy to crumple a case. That said, in 7yrs of loading for it, I might have ruined half a dozen cases. As long as you flare your case mouths correctly and make sure the bullet sits square when it goes into the seating die, problems are rare. Many suggest seating and crimping in separate steps but I don't.

It's a great cartridge and 1200fps is easily attainable from revolvers with 180's at standard pressures. That's nothing to sneeze at. A 180gr RNFP is running 1550fps from a 24" rifle without exceeding pressure standards.

 

[Hastings]

CraigC: That is helpful info. Do you use bullets with a cannelure or are they simply 40/10mm bullets? Do you get any bullet creep under recoil with the hot loads? I would think that loading for a levergun without cannelured bullets might lead to some compressed loads, but I have no frame of reference for what the recoil is like on the faster loads you mention.

This all sounds very interesting, but I don't have much experience reloading for shouldered handgun cartridges. I'm assuming the 38-40 headspaces on the case rim, not the shoulder or throat rim. I'd appreciate as much info as you are willing to share.

Thanks again.

 

[Shadow 7D]

I would posit that you will find the best is PURELY purpose driven

HOWEVER
while I'm an auto fan (and don't understand whirrly guns)
I would say that .357 Mag, .44 Mag and 10MM are very versatile round, with the revolver rounds have an even WIDER ability range, from LOW SPECial powder puff plinking loads to full bore hunting loads.

As to which is the most efficient, you have to quality WHAT. That wasn't done, .22 is the most efficient, as it lets you shoot the most for the least amount of money.

 

[CraigC]

There are 180-200gr cast bullets designed for the .38-40 with a crimp groove. Beartooth has a nice 200gr LBT and I've got some but haven't tried them yet. For jacketed bullets, I use a Corbin cannelure tool to put a cannelure in .40/10mm bullets. So far I've tried the 135gr Sierra (varmint bomb at 1600fps), the 180gr Gold Dot and 180gr RNFP's. All over 10.0gr Unique. All have clustered into an inch at 50yds. I also have some 3031 data to get a little more velocity.

Recoil is negligible, as is report. Case headspaces on the rim.

 

[Captaingyro]

Looking at all the answers that go back and forth between 9mm and 45ACP, it's too bad we don't have a cartridge less than a hundred years old that combines the best of both: most of the power of the .45 with the smaller frame size and larger magazine capacity of the 9.

Something that's been developed in the last couple of decades to take advantage of modern powders and metalurgy.

A caliber that would be so efficient, that police departments would take one look at it, and, not being constrained by the requirements of NATO allies, almost universally adopt as the obvious choice for their officers.

Something like, say, the .40S&W.

 

[hueyville]

While neither of these are my "favorites", to honestly answer the question, .357 mag in a 6" barrel and a 25-06 in a rifle. If had to narrow collection to only one rifle and one pistol those would be it. Would really miss my .22lr's....

With the .357 I can use 38 s&w (sucks) or .38 special, with a modified cylinder can even run 9mm through it. If stuck could pull down 9mm ammo and load the components into the proper case. Can load light range ammo or heat up loads that will efficiently dispatch medium game. 6" barrel can work for defense, target or hunting. Most versatile pistol IMHO.

With the 25-06 I can load it for everything from varmints, bench rest, long distance, medium and large game. Only rifle I have that I know I can do almost everything with and have. Can zap ground hogs and prairie dogs as far as I can see. Take it to the range with my pet load and nobody will completely embarrass me with anything. Load it a little heavier and deer fall like struck by lightning. In a pinch, with good heavy built bullet can take any game in the continental U.S.A. Yeah, grizzly bears would be borderline but with proper shot placement and bullet choice it would work. Since I don't live in Alaska or Africa don't have to worry about larger game. Only weakness is availability of components and off shelf ammo in the event of a shortage.

 

[Queen_of_Thunder]

I would go with the 41 Mag.

 

[Pete D.]

With the .357 I can use 38 s&w (sucks) .....

It is the rare .357 that will chamber .38 S&W. The case of the old cartridge is larger in diameter than the cases of the .357 mag and .38 Spl.
None of my .38/.357 will chamber the .38 S&W.
Shorter and fatter. The bullets, also are .361-.362 as opposed to .357-.358.