Solid_Snake
Member
- Joined
- Dec 7, 2006
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- 8
Welcome
Welcome to California; it's a shame about your collection.
Welcome to California; it's a shame about your collection.
Moving to Cali. How to get rid of my current collection? What 45 to get out there?
- Thread starter CPS1
- Start date
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SnWnMe
Member
You'll be too busy working to pay for your $5,000/mo mortgage to miss your guns anyway.
Folks,
This is the General forum. No sales here. If CPS1 wants to sell or you want to buy take it to PMs or the For Sale forum.
This is the General forum. No sales here. If CPS1 wants to sell or you want to buy take it to PMs or the For Sale forum.
Professor K
Member
Your Remington is legal. CA's shotgun restrictions only apply to autloading shotguns.
As for the FAL, I'd just keep it and hide it, put it in storage for when you need it. If you want, you could rent a storage bin for your guns in another state if you want to keep it legal.
For the Glock, it's allowed. You could keep the regular cap magazine even, if you owned the regular cap magazine before 2001, or you say you did. You could prolly get away with keeping it.
BTW, ATF does sit at ranges in California, looking for assualt weapons, so if you do theoretically bring it to Cali, you'll only be able to shoot it out of state, or in the desert or at a friend's property.
ATF still doesnt do house to house strip searches looking for black rifles and regular cap magazines, though, so if you do keep it, you'll probably be OK.
But for selling them, just sell them all online. You'll get the most money that way, and you might get to know the owner better.
Making the FAL CA compliant shouldnt be too bad, though. DOIJ says the magazine is not detachable as long as it requires a tool to remove. So you could weld like sheet metal around the mag release button, too big for a finger to fit through, and then make it so you have to put a metal rod through to get the magazine out. You could attach the metal rod to the pistol grip, too.
You cant just thumbhole stock a gun in CA, though. They count a thumbhole the same as a regular pistol grip.
As for the FAL, I'd just keep it and hide it, put it in storage for when you need it. If you want, you could rent a storage bin for your guns in another state if you want to keep it legal.
For the Glock, it's allowed. You could keep the regular cap magazine even, if you owned the regular cap magazine before 2001, or you say you did. You could prolly get away with keeping it.
BTW, ATF does sit at ranges in California, looking for assualt weapons, so if you do theoretically bring it to Cali, you'll only be able to shoot it out of state, or in the desert or at a friend's property.
ATF still doesnt do house to house strip searches looking for black rifles and regular cap magazines, though, so if you do keep it, you'll probably be OK.
But for selling them, just sell them all online. You'll get the most money that way, and you might get to know the owner better.
Making the FAL CA compliant shouldnt be too bad, though. DOIJ says the magazine is not detachable as long as it requires a tool to remove. So you could weld like sheet metal around the mag release button, too big for a finger to fit through, and then make it so you have to put a metal rod through to get the magazine out. You could attach the metal rod to the pistol grip, too.
You cant just thumbhole stock a gun in CA, though. They count a thumbhole the same as a regular pistol grip.
MatthewVanitas
Member
Umm, why would a federal agency hang around to enforce state law?
Did you mean CA DOJ agents? This is how rumors get started.
-MV
Professor K
Member
I dont know, my friend that lives in Cali told me ATF, and he's usually very reliable. Maybe CA DOJ agents, I'm not sure.
No_Brakes23
Member
I shot my 870 and 597 quite a bit in Cali. There are a lot of ranges, indoor and outdoor, and even some BLM areas to shoot in.
You can get a stripper clip upper for the SA58, or sell it and buy something Cali legal with the money. As for the Glock, just sell your magazines and then you should be good to go. That can also get plenty of use in Cali.
LEOs have been kicked off ranges for this behaviour. I still wouldn't show it in public.
You can get a stripper clip upper for the SA58, or sell it and buy something Cali legal with the money. As for the Glock, just sell your magazines and then you should be good to go. That can also get plenty of use in Cali.
LEOs have been kicked off ranges for this behaviour. I still wouldn't show it in public.
blackedoutharley
Member
First thing to make perfectly clear is that you CAN NOT import magazines with a capacity of more than 10 rounds regardless of when you got them and for somebody to advocate doing so with the advice to just "say you got them before 2001" is foolish at best.
So, while the Glock itself is legal to import the +10 mags are not.
The 870 is perfectly legal to own in California as it is not a regulated item as opposed to auto loading shotguns (as previously mentioned). Bring it! If you are concerned with shipping, just ship it to yourself at your new address. somebody else may have more info on this.
The Sa58 is a bit more complicated; if the reciever (the actual gun with serial number) is not listed on the California DOJ list of named assault weapons then it can be imported provided that the mag requires a tool to remove it and it doesnt have a capacity greater than 10 rounds.
Calguns.net members would be able to answer this question for you.
If you sell more than 5 handguns in a year you are required to get a dealers license. The California DOJ website is very helpful for gaining info on firearm laws here and specificially for people moving to the state and has a FAQ section devoted to new residents.
P.S. it is possible to have a very nice home here without a $5000 mortgage payment depending on where you live.
What part of the state are you moving to anyways?? we need more shooters in our ranks here.
Good luck.
So, while the Glock itself is legal to import the +10 mags are not.
The 870 is perfectly legal to own in California as it is not a regulated item as opposed to auto loading shotguns (as previously mentioned). Bring it! If you are concerned with shipping, just ship it to yourself at your new address. somebody else may have more info on this.
The Sa58 is a bit more complicated; if the reciever (the actual gun with serial number) is not listed on the California DOJ list of named assault weapons then it can be imported provided that the mag requires a tool to remove it and it doesnt have a capacity greater than 10 rounds.
Calguns.net members would be able to answer this question for you.
If you sell more than 5 handguns in a year you are required to get a dealers license. The California DOJ website is very helpful for gaining info on firearm laws here and specificially for people moving to the state and has a FAQ section devoted to new residents.
P.S. it is possible to have a very nice home here without a $5000 mortgage payment depending on where you live.
What part of the state are you moving to anyways?? we need more shooters in our ranks here.
Good luck.
Some bad info here: Maybe I can save someone if hey are following it themselves.
The way the people getting around it are legal is because rifles like AR-15's split open and can be loaded that way without ever removing the magazine. The "tool" wording is to describe the definition of a "permanent" magazine. As soon as you remove the magazine to reload you have an illegal assault rifle in your hand. If seen doing this by a LEO (or someone else that charges you or uses survelience to show you did it at the range) you can be charged with multiple felonies.
So I certainly hope people are not using a tool to reload, or your illegaly possessing assault weapons, and you are commiting a felony when you reload.
Professor K your interpretation of the law is very wrong. Having the tool attached to the gun for reloading would make you a felon each time you reloaded. As soon as the "permanent" magazine is removed, and is not done with other parts of the gun removed first, it is a felony assault rifle with a detachable magazine. This is why they must be sold with the "permanent" magazine in the rifle. In fact they have talked of legislation requiring welding to be considered "permanent" because people can easily turn them into illegal assault weapons too easily.
The fact that you can remove the magazine with a tool never makes it legal to remove the magazine unless stripping the gun, and it is still illegal if you strip the gun in the wrong order. There is a very specific order to strip such a gun to not be commiting a felony.
I repeat the only reason you can legal have such a weapon is because the magazine is "permanent" removing the magazine makes it not permanent and makes you a felon. The definition of permanent is only a side factor and does not change the legality of a removed magazine on a weapon that is only legal because of the "permanent" magazine.
It is my understanding that an "assault rifle" that is fixed with a magazine that "requires a tool to remove" becomes an illegal assault rifle when you remove that magazine. So unless you can load it without removing the magazine your still in illegal possession of an assault rifle when you remove the magazine without properly removing the barrel and other things first.
The way the people getting around it are legal is because rifles like AR-15's split open and can be loaded that way without ever removing the magazine. The "tool" wording is to describe the definition of a "permanent" magazine. As soon as you remove the magazine to reload you have an illegal assault rifle in your hand. If seen doing this by a LEO (or someone else that charges you or uses survelience to show you did it at the range) you can be charged with multiple felonies.
So I certainly hope people are not using a tool to reload, or your illegaly possessing assault weapons, and you are commiting a felony when you reload.
Professor K your interpretation of the law is very wrong. Having the tool attached to the gun for reloading would make you a felon each time you reloaded. As soon as the "permanent" magazine is removed, and is not done with other parts of the gun removed first, it is a felony assault rifle with a detachable magazine. This is why they must be sold with the "permanent" magazine in the rifle. In fact they have talked of legislation requiring welding to be considered "permanent" because people can easily turn them into illegal assault weapons too easily.
The fact that you can remove the magazine with a tool never makes it legal to remove the magazine unless stripping the gun, and it is still illegal if you strip the gun in the wrong order. There is a very specific order to strip such a gun to not be commiting a felony.
I repeat the only reason you can legal have such a weapon is because the magazine is "permanent" removing the magazine makes it not permanent and makes you a felon. The definition of permanent is only a side factor and does not change the legality of a removed magazine on a weapon that is only legal because of the "permanent" magazine.
Simplest solution for the FAL would be to just take off the pistol grip and make sure you do not attach a flash suppressor or any other offending feature. Or you can do as others have suggested and just pin a 10 round magazine. I believe DSA can do the modification pretty easily, or you can do it yourself if you desire.
http://www.freewebs.com/socal_webshooters/diy_california_fal.htm
In all of the years that I have been shooting I have never seen any CA DOJ or ATF agents at the ranges that I have been to, nor have I ever heard any credible reports of them doing such things. Unless there is some evidence to back up the claim, it just sounds like a rumor to me.
http://www.freewebs.com/socal_webshooters/diy_california_fal.htm
In all of the years that I have been shooting I have never seen any CA DOJ or ATF agents at the ranges that I have been to, nor have I ever heard any credible reports of them doing such things. Unless there is some evidence to back up the claim, it just sounds like a rumor to me.
Here is the law:
"12276.1 (a) Notwithstanding Section 12276, "assault weapon" shall also mean any of the following:
(1) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine and any one of the following:
(A) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon.
(B) A thumbhole stock.
(C) A folding or telescoping stock.
(D) A grenade launcher or flare launcher.
(E) A flash suppressor.
(F) A forward pistol grip.
(2) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has a fixed magazine with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds. "
This means if it has "the capacity to accept a detachable magazine" at any time there is
A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon. A thumbhole stock. A folding or telescoping stock. A grenade launcher or flare launcher. A flash suppressor. A forward pistol grip.
Removing the permanent magazine means it "has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine" while the "permanent" magazine is removed from the weapon, thus making it an illegal assault weapon unless you remove all of those other features prior to removing the magazine.
The http://www.freewebs.com/socal_webshooters/diy_california_fal.htm modification only makes it legal to have, on a technicality, it still is illegal to use unless you can (and do) load it without removing the magazine.
Any rifle also instantly becomes an assault rifle if it is under 30 inches in CA.
"12276.1 (a) Notwithstanding Section 12276, "assault weapon" shall also mean any of the following:
(1) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine and any one of the following:
(A) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon.
(B) A thumbhole stock.
(C) A folding or telescoping stock.
(D) A grenade launcher or flare launcher.
(E) A flash suppressor.
(F) A forward pistol grip.
(2) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has a fixed magazine with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds. "
This means if it has "the capacity to accept a detachable magazine" at any time there is
A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon. A thumbhole stock. A folding or telescoping stock. A grenade launcher or flare launcher. A flash suppressor. A forward pistol grip.
Removing the permanent magazine means it "has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine" while the "permanent" magazine is removed from the weapon, thus making it an illegal assault weapon unless you remove all of those other features prior to removing the magazine.
The http://www.freewebs.com/socal_webshooters/diy_california_fal.htm modification only makes it legal to have, on a technicality, it still is illegal to use unless you can (and do) load it without removing the magazine.
Any rifle also instantly becomes an assault rifle if it is under 30 inches in CA.
As long as you do not remove the fixed magazine why would you not be able to use the rifle? You can either get a stripper clip top cover, or just load the thing while holding the bolt back. DSA offers their own CA compliant FALs that also use a fixed mag set up, so I fail to see how the above link somehow is any different.
http://www.dsarms.com/products.asp?dept=39
Once again thanks to everyone who responded to my question. I understand that some of you might be a little dissappointed that I'm considering giving up my collection to live in a state with unjust gun laws.That said, please understand that the position I have been offered is quite litterally the oportunity of a lifetime (in my chosen field) and I would be a fool to pass it up. While I probably could neuter the SA58, a fixed mag, no grip FAL is just not something I could bear to own. I plan on living in Cali for a while... so I really don't want to put it in storage... My feelings are the same about 10 rounders on the glock... Okay for some not for me tho'. I'm going to sell those 2 online. I'm now thinking about keeping the 870P Max, and the 597... But I still have reservations about holding on to them. Maybe I'll hold on to those for a little longer... maybe not. Either way... you've all given me a lot to think about.
MudCamper
Member
Where abouts in CA? Remember, CA is as big as three other states, and unless you live down in SoCal, most of us wish it was three or more states...
RaetherEnt
Member
I'm gonna chime in here, as a man with experience in this exact same situation. Back in 2003 I moved from Kansas City to Northern California...Got rid of all my "evil" black rifles. After enduring 16 months of torture in that meth-infested, "law breakers have more rights than the law-abiding", "Let's sue everybody for everything" 
, I got the hell out. Of course, once I moved back to civilization, I had to re-purchase everything. (Well, that was good AND bad)
Either way, like has been said before, if you have a place to park them where you can go "visit" occasionally, I would definately consider it. You may not make it in Cali much longer than I did. I know many people with the same story...
, I got the hell out. Of course, once I moved back to civilization, I had to re-purchase everything. (Well, that was good AND bad)Either way, like has been said before, if you have a place to park them where you can go "visit" occasionally, I would definately consider it. You may not make it in Cali much longer than I did. I know many people with the same story...
You poor bastard.
I just moved FROM CA to NV and I used to be up to date on all the silly gun laws... Don't sell the 870 or the Glock, if I were you I would do everthing I could to keep from selling that SA58, and it looks like you have some options.
But Please, for me, if you don't have to, don't sell your guns... It makes me very sad.
Oh, yeah and if you do, buy a Kimber.
I just moved FROM CA to NV and I used to be up to date on all the silly gun laws... Don't sell the 870 or the Glock, if I were you I would do everthing I could to keep from selling that SA58, and it looks like you have some options.But Please, for me, if you don't have to, don't sell your guns... It makes me very sad.
Oh, yeah and if you do, buy a Kimber.
Professor K
Member
I'd seriously keep your FAL somehow. Seriously, in a few years when there's an AWB it's gonna be worth a ton, even if the AWB goes for a complete ban, no grandfather clause or anything, it'll be worth a killing. Seriously, dont trade that good of an investment for 600-700 dollars.
LeoC
Member
You have the chance here to do some classic "buy low, sell high" with handguns. Of course, the no-more-than-5-sales-a-year thing would apply (the process for getting a FFL in CA without an established place of business.. good luck )
Find out from Calguns what the high-demand handguns are that are NOT on the CA-approved list. Buy a bunch and bring them with you. You'll need to register them with CA DOJ, but afterwards you can sell them through private-party-transfer.. through an FFL that is. ALL firearms sales must go through an FFL here
But I'd look at KelTec handguns and 1911 FRAMES for starters. Just thinking high profit margin items here. Good luck, and hope it's really worth coming here
Oh and if you want the new HK 45, get it before you come to CA... Once it goes on sale nationwide, it will be at least half a year before it will be available in CA (must meet DOJ regulations, go through testing, just 'cause DOJ doesn't want to add another handgun on the list, etc..)
)Find out from Calguns what the high-demand handguns are that are NOT on the CA-approved list. Buy a bunch and bring them with you. You'll need to register them with CA DOJ, but afterwards you can sell them through private-party-transfer.. through an FFL that is. ALL firearms sales must go through an FFL here
But I'd look at KelTec handguns and 1911 FRAMES for starters. Just thinking high profit margin items here. Good luck, and hope it's really worth coming here
Oh and if you want the new HK 45, get it before you come to CA... Once it goes on sale nationwide, it will be at least half a year before it will be available in CA (must meet DOJ regulations, go through testing, just 'cause DOJ doesn't want to add another handgun on the list, etc..)
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Yes, this is another "a good friend of my brother's hairdresser told me..." sort of hearsay that gets passed around for the truth on the internet.
No, BATF does not sit in CA gun ranges, nor does CA DOJ, or any other LE agencies.
I live in CA and I shoot my black rifles at IDPA 3-gun meets and other get-togethers. Been a CA-based firearms owner for 20-years. Never had problems at Los Altos Rod & Gun, Richmond Rod & Gun or Chabot Gun Range. -These places are based near liberal San Francisco-Berkeley.
I have not been to a private range where they have been denied, although some ranges ask you not to fold the stock and please slow your shots down.
Some city-run ranges DO ask you to show your registration documentation if you want to shoot at their ranges, if you don't have the docs, then you cannot shoot. This will happen at Coyote Creek Gun range.
Never have LEOs of any sort been called to confiscate firearms. The ones you meet at the ranges are right friendly and sometimes will ask to shoot your guns.
SoCalShooter
Member
Wives tale.
Also I am not telling you to break the law but keep the FAL. Trust me just keep it, put it away and dont talk about it.
Mauserguy
Member
I got rid of my AK because of the Kali AWB. I wish I hadn't done that. If I were you, I would get a small locker in Las Vegas and leave them there. You would break no laws and have them available for weekend shoots. At any rate, good luck to you.
Mauserguy
Mauserguy
BerettaNut92
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I sympathize. I just made it to Arizona and I have to move back. I'd take the 870, sell or store everything else.
I'm going to retire Nina and get a S&W M&P45. I don't like hollow grips.
I'm going to retire Nina and get a S&W M&P45. I don't like hollow grips.
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