Murder by perjury?

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onerifle

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Makes you wonder...


Dec. 3, 2005, 8:00AM

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/3499948.html

'Murder by perjury' in Cantu case?
By RICK CASEY
Copyright 2005 Houston Chronicle

Juan Moreno could end up making Job look lucky.

First, at the age of 19, he was shot nine times and left for dead in a 1984 robbery in San Antonio. A companion of Moreno was shot to death during the robbery.

Then, Moreno says, he was pressured by police into identifying the wrong man after repeatedly saying it wasn't him.

That man, Ruben Cantu, was executed based on Moreno's testimony in a 1985 trial.

Now Bexar County District Attorney Susan Reed says if her investigation supports Moreno's contention that the wrong man was executed, she may file charges against him.

For perjury? No. The three-year statute of limitations ran out a long time ago.

For the murder of Ruben Cantu.

Murder has no statute of limitations.

A passionate prosecutor
Cantu's lawyers, Gerald Goldstein and Cynthia Orr, say Moreno is courageous in coming forward after 20 years of feeling guilt to admit his role in the Cantu affair.

They describe him as a meek person who was, as a 19-year-old illegal immigrant, probably even meeker and therefore subject to pressure from police.

Reed, as passionate a prosecutor as Goldstein and Orr are defense attorneys, sees it differently.

"You guys," she says, referring to the Houston Chronicle and reporter Lise Olsen, who broke the Ruben Cantu story two weeks ago, "have put up a guy who says, 'I went into a courtroom. I lied. I knew I lied.'

"A man has been executed because of that lie. That is pretty serious stuff. There are consequences for that."

A scared, malleable kid
"If there were not consequences, then the system would allow itself to be attacked. The integrity of the judicial system is all based on truth, most importantly presenting the truth to the jury."

She said her office's investigation would also look at the behavior of the police, but she doesn't think their behavior would exonerate Moreno.

She pointed out that Texas law provides a defense for crimes committed "under duress."

But that defense covers only crimes committed "because (the accused) was compelled to do so by threat of imminent death or serious bodily injury to himself or another."

"It does not say the threat of deportation to Mexico," she said.

In fact, Moreno, who is now a legal citizen, denies police made that threat or any other.

The pressure was more subtle.

Defense attorneys Orr and Goldstein contend that Moreno was a scared, malleable kid, and the real culprits were the cops who pressured him.

Reed says that might make a difference in the punishment phase, but it does not relieve Moreno of responsibility.

"When you walk into that courtroom you walk in yourself," she said. "You sit in the witness stand and swear to God you're going to tell the truth.

"If his original thing was to tell the police what they wanted to hear, he had the opportunity to fix it in court. He then had 10 years (actually eight years before the execution) to fix it."

Ironically, the statute under which Reed says she would likely charge murder is the same one used here in Harris County to charge the Pasadena school bus driver for murder for accidentally running over a 9-year-old girl.

Under that statute, it is felony murder when, in the course of committing another felony (perjury, in this case) a person commits "an act clearly dangerous to human life that causes the death of an individual."

In Texas, I suppose, accusing someone of capital murder is clearly dangerous to that person's life.

I want to make one thing clear. Reed is not just focused on going after Moreno. Before she mentioned him in our Friday conversation, she said, "If your story is correct and (Cantu) is innocent, that means there is another murderer out there."

And she told reporter Olsen that if the story is correct, it demonstrates a nonfunctioning justice system.

But Reed is ready to punish perjury partly as a deterrent.

There's one problem. By doing so, she could also be deterring others from confessing that, under pressure from police, they gave false testimony.

Would that make the justice system function better?
 
Makes you wonder...


Dec. 3, 2005, 8:00AM

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/3499948.html

'Murder by perjury' in Cantu case?
By RICK CASEY
Copyright 2005 Houston Chronicle

Juan Moreno could end up making Job look lucky.

First, at the age of 19, he was shot nine times and left for dead in a 1984 robbery in San Antonio. A companion of Moreno was shot to death during the robbery.

Then, Moreno says, he was pressured by police into identifying the wrong man after repeatedly saying it wasn't him.

That man, Ruben Cantu, was executed based on Moreno's testimony in a 1985 trial.

Now Bexar County District Attorney Susan Reed says if her investigation supports Moreno's contention that the wrong man was executed, she may file charges against him.

For perjury? No. The three-year statute of limitations ran out a long time ago.

For the murder of Ruben Cantu.

Murder has no statute of limitations.

A passionate prosecutor
Cantu's lawyers, Gerald Goldstein and Cynthia Orr, say Moreno is courageous in coming forward after 20 years of feeling guilt to admit his role in the Cantu affair.

They describe him as a meek person who was, as a 19-year-old illegal immigrant, probably even meeker and therefore subject to pressure from police.

Reed, as passionate a prosecutor as Goldstein and Orr are defense attorneys, sees it differently.

"You guys," she says, referring to the Houston Chronicle and reporter Lise Olsen, who broke the Ruben Cantu story two weeks ago, "have put up a guy who says, 'I went into a courtroom. I lied. I knew I lied.'

"A man has been executed because of that lie. That is pretty serious stuff. There are consequences for that."

A scared, malleable kid
"If there were not consequences, then the system would allow itself to be attacked. The integrity of the judicial system is all based on truth, most importantly presenting the truth to the jury."

She said her office's investigation would also look at the behavior of the police, but she doesn't think their behavior would exonerate Moreno.

She pointed out that Texas law provides a defense for crimes committed "under duress."

But that defense covers only crimes committed "because (the accused) was compelled to do so by threat of imminent death or serious bodily injury to himself or another."

"It does not say the threat of deportation to Mexico," she said.

In fact, Moreno, who is now a legal citizen, denies police made that threat or any other.

The pressure was more subtle.

Defense attorneys Orr and Goldstein contend that Moreno was a scared, malleable kid, and the real culprits were the cops who pressured him.

Reed says that might make a difference in the punishment phase, but it does not relieve Moreno of responsibility.

"When you walk into that courtroom you walk in yourself," she said. "You sit in the witness stand and swear to God you're going to tell the truth.

"If his original thing was to tell the police what they wanted to hear, he had the opportunity to fix it in court. He then had 10 years (actually eight years before the execution) to fix it."

Ironically, the statute under which Reed says she would likely charge murder is the same one used here in Harris County to charge the Pasadena school bus driver for murder for accidentally running over a 9-year-old girl.

Under that statute, it is felony murder when, in the course of committing another felony (perjury, in this case) a person commits "an act clearly dangerous to human life that causes the death of an individual."

In Texas, I suppose, accusing someone of capital murder is clearly dangerous to that person's life.

I want to make one thing clear. Reed is not just focused on going after Moreno. Before she mentioned him in our Friday conversation, she said, "If your story is correct and (Cantu) is innocent, that means there is another murderer out there."

And she told reporter Olsen that if the story is correct, it demonstrates a nonfunctioning justice system.

But Reed is ready to punish perjury partly as a deterrent.

There's one problem. By doing so, she could also be deterring others from confessing that, under pressure from police, they gave false testimony.

Would that make the justice system function better?
 
The cops are the ones to be punished.

This kid is from Mexico where you do not argue with cops


"did this man shoot you?"

you say "no"

"we think this man shot you"

you say "no sir"

We are sure this man shot you

you say "I don't think so"

#$%#$ you little punk we know who shot you. Just
say yes

you say "yes sir he shot me"
 
jsalcedo said:
The cops are the ones to be punished.

This kid is from Mexico where you do not argue with cops


"did this man shoot you?"

you say "no"

"we think this man shot you"

you say "no sir"

We are sure this man shot you

you say "I don't think so"

#$%#$ you little punk we know who shot you. Just
say yes

you say "yes sir he shot me"

Too bad for him that he was in the USA. In Mexico, things might have been different. We have different rules here, last time I checked.;)
Biker
 
We have different rules here, last time I checked.

Yeah but I'm guessing the kid didn't know that.

Sadly this type of thing happens ALOT we had a forensics guy here a few years back that faked tests and presented it as evidence in thousands of cases in order to get convictions.

Hopefully the guy who was executed deserved it for other stuff. :(
 
I hope that the officers involved are indicted as well; if they aren't charged with official oppression at a minimum, it's sure going to seem like there's some collusion bewteen the DA's office and SAPD...

Mods- please delete/lock the dupe.
 
Well, this is his story now, (if) he lied before, under oath, is he lieing now or telling the truth?
 
In fact, Moreno, who is now a legal citizen, denies police made that threat or any other.
The pressure was more subtle.

And just what pressure did the police allegedly use, if any?

So far, we've got a guy whose lies caused the death of another man and his excuse is "The cops made me do it but didn't threaten me or nuthin'." R-i-g-h-t.

What evidence is there that the police did anything at all to influence Moreno's testimony, other than the word of a self-admitted liar.

Crosshair and beerslurpy, you want to prosecute the cops, but exactly on what basis and evidence? Right now, it sounds like being a cop is sufficient evidence for conviction for you guys.
 
Technical issue.

The victim in this case didn't accuse the executed man of murder and assault, he merely willfully mis-identified him in court.

The State of Texas was the accuser and the (legal) individual, who, on the basis of this man's perjured testimony, and other evidence they presented sought the conviction and then actually killed the guy.

If the prosecutor didn't have enough evidence to stick a conviction other than eyewitness testimony and yet pushed for the needle, that needs a look-see as well.
 
The deadhead police officers who pressured the guy into lying should be put on trial with him for murder. They should all get the death penalty, if found guilty.
 
onerifle said:
And she told reporter Olsen that if the story is correct, it demonstrates a nonfunctioning justice system.

But Reed is ready to punish perjury partly as a deterrent.
No she's not. She already admitted that the statute of limitations ran out 17 years ago.

She's trying to convict for murder a guy who was victimized by the police.

Bad ju-ju.
 
Why is it that the state that actually killed the man, represents the police, and the court which convicted and sentanced him, bears ZERO culpablility in this "murder"?
 
She's going to prosecute this? Her only piece of evidence is a guy who is demonstrably a liar. We don't know if he's lying now or he was lying then, but clearly his testimony can be easily impeached, and without his testimony they don't have a case. But wait, it gets worse... they can't even force him to testify.
She's showboating to cover the police and the DAs office, and she knows she is showboating.
 
More likely that he regrets what happened / has been contacted by the relatives of the person executed and has been told to regret what happened or is just being stupid and mouthed off.

In the article it says:

In fact, Moreno, who is now a legal citizen, denies police made that threat or any other.

The pressure was more subtle.

trans: I told them what I wanted to tell them at the time and repeated it throughout the trial, appeals process and up to now. It looks like I might get in trouble for it now and so I am desperately looking to shift the blame away from me onto someone else.
 
good arguement against imposing the death penalty in cases where the conviction depends on eye witness testimony... vs. scientific, physical evidence...
 
I seriously doubt a jury gave the death penalty solely on the word of an illegal alien. Most jurists are not that blood thirsty. I would like to see a lot more information on this than just an article written by a journalist before accusing police and saying they should all be executed.
 
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