Muzzleloader bullet construction

[courtgreene]

I've been using hornady FPBs for years. They're accurate in my CVA wolf. The problem is that of all the deer I've shot with them there has been no blood to track. Usually I find them in short order by listening for where they drop and the only evidence I see that they bled is right under the body. Now that I'm hunting thicker terrain, this has become a problem. I can't track footprints because the dirt isn't exposed so there are none. I need a bullet that will open and do it's thing at muzzleloader velocities. I use a 100 grain charge. I'm thinking of switching to aerolite power belts. I've got two friends who use sabot end hornady bullets with 150grain charges and they both say the same thing. None of the deer they shoot have left a drop of blood until they got right up to the body. Has anyone tried aerolites? Do you have another suggestion?

 

[H&Hhunter]

For a bore sized bullet I have excellent luck/massive blood trails with the Parker Productions Hydra-con.

http://www.parkerproductionsinc.com/

 

[MCgunner]

I never have the problem with a full bore Hornady Great Plains minie ball. 385 grains of full bore power with a big, blunt nose doesn't need expansion, it's already expanded. Do yourself a favor and shoot the deer in the shoulder with it, he'll drop right in his tracks, dead or not, and all the meat you'll lose is shoulder grinding meat, anyway. And, with the Great Plains bullet, I can eat right up to the hole. They shoot very accurately in my CVA Wolf, too.

I always take shoulder shots regardless, especially in deep woods. Anchors 'em without need to track anything. In 50 years of following grandpa's advice and shoulder shooting deer, I've yet to lose an animal. Only ones that have gone very far WEREN'T shoulder shot. Sorry, Gramps, learned my lesson.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/53...caliber-385-grain-lead-hollow-point-box-of-20

 

[courtgreene]

Mcgunner that may be the ticket. My problem is expansion and so losing the jacket sounds like the way to go. Also it satisfies my hatred of sabots.

 

[Arkansas Paul]

For a bore sized bullet I have excellent luck/massive blood trails with the Parker Productions Hydra-con.

Wow. $2 a bullet for cast lead.
I will never complain about the cost of Powerbelts again.

I'm sure they work great. A 400+ grain hollow point should definitely get the job done. I'd be looking for a mold to cast something like that though to be able to afford to shoot the darn things.

 

[MCgunner]

Mcgunner that may be the ticket. My problem is expansion and so losing the jacket sounds like the way to go. Also it satisfies my hatred of sabots.

Well, I have tested saboted 240 grain .44 bullet for accuracy, but on game, I just figure if you have a .50 caliber barrel, why not USE it. That Great Plains pill hits like the hammer of Thor. WHAP! From 100 yards, you know you got a hit. LOL I cast a Lee Minie and a REAL bullet, but hunt with the Hornady. It's a bit more accurate and I know it works and at 12 bucks or so for 20 round box, it don't break the bank.

Those GP bullets work well in my 1:24 twist Cabela's Hawkin Hunter Carbine, too. About 20 years ago at walmart, I found their stash of GP bullets on sale for $1.50 a box. I bought 'em out. I STILL had a stash of those when I got the Wolf 4 years ago, LOl. I've bought more since.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Since you're using something that is probably fast twist for the sabots, I won't mention you using patched, round ball. 100 grains is a pretty stout load, and 150 grains is probably wasting 50 grains by giving a massive fireball in front of your friend's muzzle.

So... as suggested, take a shoulder shot with the round that you're using, or switch to the suggested conical bullet IF it works accurately from your rifle, and take the shoulder shot.

MCgunner is the fourth fellow that I regularly correspond with about ML's that has had great success with a quartering shot at the shoulder. I always go for broadside shot myself, but I am thinking this year of trying the shoulder.

On another forum one of the hunters refused all but shoulder shots to test the idea, and although he was using a patched, round ball, reported all of his deer dropped where standing. Something about the shock on impact translating directly to the spinal column on deer, if the bullet doesn't actually hit the spinal column. Now if a slower moving, light round ball (compared to a heavy conical, or your fast moving sabot) has good results at the shoulder, you should too, no?

LD

 

[Patocazador]

Most bullets used in sabots are pistol bullets that are designed to expand in a certain range of terminal velocities. Chrono your load and see the velocity, then pick a bullet that fits the window that will give expansion. Too slow and you will get no expansion; too fast and the bullet will fragment and not penetrate.
The easy way is to use a pure lead conical bullet that is full bore.

 

[BP Hunter]

I used to use the Hornady 250gr SST. They ususally drops on the spot for sucah a heavy bullet but the wound is devastating. The entrance wound is small but the exit wound is is about 2 1/2 across. If the deer did not die on the spot, it woulf have had a large blood trail.

 

[forgiven]

I have always just casted my own.

 

[MCgunner]

My problem with casting is finding PURE lead. Minies don't work with less than pure lead and the Lee REAL may need pure lead, too. They shoot okay with alloy lead, but not as good as if cast of pure lead. The minies, of course, simply don't work at all if the alloy is harder than pure lead. The skirt needs to expand into the rifling, it's how they're designed.

Since pure lead is over 2 bucks a pound last time I looked, I see casting 'em as pointless. I just buy the Hornady's for 12 bucks for 20 and don't have to cast 'em. I see no reason, though, that a hand cast bullet would work any different than the Hornady. Nothing fancy about the Hornady, just a big, flat nosed chunk a lead.

 

[Arkansas Paul]

You can go over to the cast boolits site and usually find pure lead for around $1 a pound already cast into ingots.

 

[Patocazador]

MCgunner, go to a recycler the next time you're in a fair-sized town and see if they have roofing lead sheets, plumbing vent stacks or lead casing from cable. These are almost 100% pure lead. I have found their prices to be quite reasonable - about $0.35/lb to $0.50/lb.
Also try a tire outlet and buy their used stick-on wheel weights. They are also pure. The ones with clips are not and may not even be lead.

 

[Arkansas Paul]

^ The last time I visited a tire shop I bought 2 buckets full of wheel weights for $70 and ended up with over 30 pounds of stick ons.
Now, I don't usually get that much out of it but those two buckets had a lot.

 

[matrem]

Count me in with poster # 9.

Have killed 6 or 7 whitetails with .451 250 gr SSTs, none ran more than 50 yards or so, and all but one had blood coming out both sides of them.

The one that didn't was a straight on frontal shot on a rather large doe and it ended up somewhere in her stomach. That one also showed me I'd pick something different for critters a lot thicker than whitetails.

But they sure work well on whitetails.

 

[Bezoar]

heres the whole problem. they used to use handgun bullets for normal velocity 45 colt/44 magnum handgun loads. you know this bullet at 1-1200 fps and it open up good.
well now they use junk bullets. the newest packages from thompson center seem to be using the hornady action pistol, a non expanding version of the xtp that i lvoe to use in a sabot form.

 

[matrem]

Now they use junk bullets?
Bullets are better now than they've ever been.
.429 xtps were never designed to be spit out at 2000 fps.
Use a rifle bullet at rifle velocities.

 

[Sun Tzu warrior]

Power belts worked good for me, until it was legal to use a 45/70 in our state.
I always take liver shots, they are devastating, leave blood spray from both holes, don't hurt much meat, and the deer never make it past 50 yards.
STW

 

[courtgreene]

I didn't have time to switch this season but will try the Great Plains next year. This morning I finally got one to bleed with a double lung shot (I realize the others shot in the heart also bled, but they didn't do so in a track-able quantity) and I was able to track him. But, the bullet still didn't expand at all. Live and learn. Double lung or neck shots from here out with the fpb's. At least for the rest of the season, 2 days.

 

[MCgunner]

Power belts worked good for me, until it was legal to use a 45/70 in our state.
I always take liver shots, they are devastating, leave blood spray from both holes, don't hurt much meat, and the deer never make it past 50 yards.
STW

LIVER shots? Weird. Some folks like to eat the liver. I'll keep breaking shoulders and dropping 'em DRT, thanks. No need for trackin' if he can't go anywhere.

 

[T.R.]

I hunt with the cousin to your Wolf; mine is named Optima but has same basic features. I've had very good luck with the 270 grain Speer Deep Curl bullet designed for 44 MAG and 444 Marlin. This bullet produces rapid expansion and deep penetration. I've never recovered a bullet yet since they always smash through the other side!

Good hunting to you.

TR

 

[TommyD45]

I have used 300 grain Hornady XTP-Mags (45 cal) with a black sabot in my 50 cal Savage 10ML-II on three deer. Broadside or quartering away shots. Two crumpled on the spot and one ran for about 5 seconds.

Silver dollar size entrance and exit wounds. The one that ran left an easy to follow blood trail in the light dusting of snow on the ground.

I also used the same bullet in a 45 colt revolver on a 120 pound doe. Nice broadside shot with full penetration and lots of blood. She didn't go 20 yards.

Tom

Tom

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Minies don't work with less than pure lead

HUH? The base doesn't expand to fit the grooves in the barrel, OR you don't like the impact performance with an alloy?

'Cause I'm thinking folks a hole is a hole... several of the cast-your-own club folks that I know are using wheel weights, and yes, they get the same size hole coming out as when going in, but that's still pretty big. Even when launching a .440 round ball.

LD

 

[Glockula]

I have been muzzle loader hunting for many years with power belts. This year I am hunting In eastern NC where it is thick and swampy pocosin. A decent blood trail or DRT shots are more important here than other types of terrain where you might see or hear the deer drop. They don't make a whole lot of noise in the pine straw.

I started using the Barnes muzzle loader MZ solid coppers and it has made a fan out of me. Good through and through penetration and minimal blood shot meat. Devastating where the bullet passes through. I use a .45 cal traditions so I am using the 195 gr version. Stays a little over an inch at 100 yards too.