My First Winchester 94 30-30

Status
Not open for further replies.
Got my pre-64 (1959) model 94 in 1985. Hard to believe it was only 26 years old at that time. That was 37 years ago. LOL

I admire Marlins, but there is nothing like a well broken-in pre-64 Winchester 94 IMO.
 
Pre-64 actually meant something with the model 70, at least for a while. The rifle was redesigned to the point that it should have had a different model designation. As far as I know there are no interchangeable parts between a 1963 model 70 and a 1964 or newer model 70.

The most notable difference was changing from controlled round feed to push feed. For the guys who really wanted controlled round feeding a pre-64 Winchester 70 was the only option for a USA made rifle. Prices for even common guns were at a premium. But Winchester did another redesign in 1992 and brought back controlled round feeding. Ruger's Mk-II was changed to CRF at the same time and we now have Kimber. Since CRF is easily available now common Pre-64 Winchesters aren't as collectible as they used to be.

The model 94 did begin to change starting in 1964. But the changes were more subtle and happened gradually over time. With the 94 it wasn't so much a completely redesigned rifle, but poor QC. The fit and finish isn't as good.

Basically from 1964 until 1980 are dark days for everything Winchester. The company was sold in 1980 and became the United States Repeating Arms Company. The early 80's guns had USRAC stamped on them. They bought the rights to the Winchester name and made the rifles and shotguns in the same New Haven factory. The new owners turned the company around.

The 1980's and 1990's Winchesters are some of the best ever made. Even though the model 70 was still using a push feed action. In 1992 Winchester introduced the Classic series of model 70's. They aren't a 100% true copy of the Pre-64's but are pretty darn close. And are actually a better rifle than the Pre-64's. They still made the PF version but sold them as their budget line of rifles.

At some point after 2000 Browning/FN bought Winchester. Quality once again began to slide and there are some issues with guns made after 2000 up until 2006 when they closed the New Haven Factory. There were no more Winchester made until 2008 when they started making some in the factory where FN made military rifles in South Carolina. This wasn't ideal since it was taking up floor space needed for military rifles. After a few years production of the model 70's was moved to Portugal where Browning's are made.
 
I've had both pre & post '64 and other than very minor changes, didn't notice any significant differences between the two. They both did what they were supposed to do.
Granted the quality couldn't compete with a Henry but it was never intended to.
Anyway someone PLEASE explain why "pre-64" is better?

This link can explain some of the history of the Win. ‘94.
https://chuckhawks.com/win_94.htm

I have a 94 AE (angle eject) carbine with the dreaded Crossbolt Safety. :what:
It’s one of my favorite guns. :D
 
33099EEB-F1A3-494C-9484-DFE115E118E7.jpeg I have a 1980 model 94.
I love that rifle! I agree with a previous post that says it is light weight and handles extremely well.
I handload for it and developed a load using Hornady FTX bullets and Leverevolution powder which can give me clover leaves at 50 yds, and minute of pie plate at 200.
I’ve never held a pre 64 but my 94 is great in my mind. (I guess you don’t know what you don’t know).
Growing up as a young boy the Rifleman was one of my favorite shows and we used to watch the Saturday morning westerns every weekend.
I believe that is where I developed my love of the 94.
 
View attachment 1060466 I have a 1980 model 94.
I love that rifle! I agree with a previous post that says it is light weight and handles extremely well.
I handload for it and developed a load using Hornady FTX bullets and Leverevolution powder which can give me clover leaves at 50 yds, and minute of pie plate at 200.
I’ve never held a pre 64 but my 94 is great in my mind. (I guess you don’t know what you don’t know).
Growing up as a young boy the Rifleman was one of my favorite shows and we used to watch the Saturday morning westerns every weekend.
I believe that is where I developed my love of the 94.
Your PIC reminded me of the 1873 Winchester found leaning against a tree in Nevada.
If you haven't heard the story it's an interesting read.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forgotten_Winchester
At the time it was left there, a rifle was one of, if not the most important / prized possessions one could own. How / why it was left there remains a mystery. We can only speculate what happened.
It wouldn't surprise me if the owner's remains were nearby as well.
 
I have seen that story!
I can see now where you would make that correlation.
Be sure that this rifle is one of my most prized possessions too.
Fortunately I have not become the same mystery!;)
 
My first '94 was an early 70s production, bought from a guy needing gas money at a station i worked at in high school for 50$.
Took several deer, coupla antelopes and gasp...elk too, yes,a 30-30 will and has taken large game animals contrary to much of what is written today.
Many years of 94s' at least 3 pre 64s and a coupla of post 70-80 models. The pre 64 is in my mind the better rifle not nearly as loose and clackey as the newer model. Im not saying the post 64s are crappy, they function just fine usually, just like the attention to detail and the superior fit and finish
 
It always struck me as ironic that the Winchester lever guns were made possible by the invention of Benjamin Tyler Henry. They were made by the New Haven Arms Company that later became known as the Winchester Repeating Arms Company with the advent of the 1866 model, leaving the Henry name behind.

Howdy

There is a bit more to the story than that. Oliver Winchester became a major investor in a company run by a couple of guys named Horace Smith and Daniel Wesson that was producing a small lever operated handgun and rifle. The rifle was an interesting development on the Jennings repeating rifle. After an article in Scientific American describing the 'volcanic' rate of fire of the little rifle, the company was renamed the Volcanic Repeating Arms Company. But the Volcanic was never a commercial success, mainly because the 'Rocket Ball' ammunition it fired was under powered. In 1855 several investors, including Winchester, who had made a lot of money mass producing shirts, sunk new funds into the Volcanic company, but the tiny rocket ball ammunition was still the problem. At about this time Smith and Wesson left the Volcanic company to found a new company to produce revolvers. Winchester bought out the other investors and hired Benjamin Tyler Henry to redesign the ammunition. He came up with a rimfire 44 caliber cartridge that was much more powerful than the little rocket ball ammunition. Then Winchester assigned Henry to design a new rifle to fire the new ammunition. The new rifle was much larger than the little Volcanics, and it included an extractor to extract spent cases. The rocket ball ammo did not have a case to extract, everything went down the barrel. The patents for the new rifle were issued in 1860 with Henry's name on them, but the patents were actually owned by Winchester's company, which he had renamed the New Haven Arms company after moving it to New Haven Connecticut.

Actual production of the Henry rifle did not start until 1862, and there were some bumps along the way, but eventually the Henry rifle, as produced by the New Haven Arms Company became a commercial success. Winchester had been working hard getting the company going, and in 1866 he took a vacation. He sailed to Europe. Henry, who was only an employee of the company, not one of the owners, felt he was not being paid enough, and in Winchester's absence approached the Connecticut legislature and attempted to have the company awarded to him. Winchester caught wind of the plot, hurried home from Europe, and reorganized the company as the Winchester Repeating Arms Company. The Winchester Model 1866, the first rifle to bear the Winchester name, was the first product of the new company. The Model 1866 fired the same 44 caliber rimfire cartridge, because Winchester owned the patents. The Model 1866 did away with the front loading feature of the Henry rifle, using the King patented loading gate. The 1866 Winchester was the first lever gun to have a wooden forestock, because the magazine follower of the Henry ran in a slot at the bottom of the magazine, preventing the use of a wooden forestock.

This is a photo of my Uberti replica of the 1860 Iron Frame Henry. Notice it lacks a forestock. The tab of the follower can be seen protruding out of the bottom of the magazine.

po7ne77gj.jpg




After leaving the company owned by Winchester, Henry worked as a gunsmith until his death in 1898.
 
Last edited:
Howdy Again

Many years ago I bought a Winchester Model 1894 at a flea market. This rifle had been cut down, the barrel was shortened to 20 inches as I remember, and the magazine had been cut in half. This old rifle had a crescent shaped butt plate, with sharp points at the top and bottom. It was of course chambered for 30-30. I did not know back then that the proper way to mount a rifle with a crescent shaped butt plate is to hike it farther out on the shoulder joint so the points do not contact the meaty part of the shoulder. The little rifle was very light, and it kicked like the devil. I could only shoot about three shots before it hurt so much that I was flinching like crazy.

That little rifle was stolen many years ago, I wish I still had it, now that I know the proper way to mount it.

A few years ago I was able to pick up this very nice Model 1894, It is an early one, it shipped in 1895. It is nice and heavy with its 26" octagon barrel. Now that I know how to mount it, it is a pleasure to shoot. The recoil is substantial, but it is just a firm shove and it does not hurt because the points of the crescent are not digging into my shoulder.

pmgkSzbhj.jpg
 
Howdy

There is a bit more to the story than that. Oliver Winchester became a major investor in a company run by a couple of guys named Horace Smith and Daniel Wesson that was producing a small lever operated handgun and rifle. The rifle was an interesting development on the Jennings repeating rifle. After an article in Scientific American describing the 'volcanic' rate of fire of the little rifle, the company was renamed the Volcanic Repeating Arms Company. But the Volcanic was never a commercial success, mainly because the 'Rocket Ball' ammunition it fired was under powered. In 1855 several investors, including Winchester, who had made a lot of money mass producing shirts, sunk new funds into the Volcanic company, but the tiny rocket ball ammunition was still the problem. At about this time Smith and Wesson left the Volcanic company to found a new company to produce revolvers. Winchester bought out the other investors and hired Benjamin Tyler Henry to redesign the ammunition. He came up with a rimfire 44 caliber cartridge that was much more powerful than the little rocket ball ammunition. Then Winchester assigned Henry to design a new rifle to fire the new ammunition. The new rifle was much larger than the little Volcanics, and it included an extractor to extract spent cases. The rocket ball ammo did not have a case to extract, everything went down the barrel. The patents for the new rifle were issued in 1860 with Henry's name on them, but the patents were actually owned by Winchester's company, which he had renamed the New Haven Arms company after moving it to New Haven Connecticut.

Actual production of the Henry rifle did not start until 1862, and there were some bumps along the way, but eventually the Henry rifle, as produced by the New Haven Arms Company became a commercial success. Winchester had been working hard getting the company going, and in 1866 he took a vacation. He sailed to Europe. Henry, who was only an employee of the company, not one of the owners, felt he was not being paid enough, and in Winchester's absence approached the Connecticut legislature and attempted to have the company awarded to him. Winchester caught wind of the plot, hurried home from Europe, and reorganized the company as the Winchester Repeating Arms Company. The Winchester Model 1866, the first rifle to bear the Winchester name, was the first product of the new company. The Model 1866 fired the same 44 caliber rimfire cartridge, because Winchester owned the patents. The Model 1866 did away with the front loading feature of the Henry rifle, using the King patented loading gate. The 1866 Winchester was the first lever gun to have a wooden forestock, because the magazine follower of the Henry ran in a slot at the bottom of the magazine, preventing the use of a wooden forestock.

This is a photo of my Uberti replica of the 1860 Iron Frame Henry. Notice it lacks a forestock. The tab of the follower can be seen protruding out of the bottom of the magazine.

View attachment 1060945




After leaving the company owned by Winchester, Henry worked as a gunsmith until his death in 1898.
Wow! That was incredibly interesting! Thanks!
 
Howdy Again

Many years ago I bought a Winchester Model 1894 at a flea market. This rifle had been cut down, the barrel was shortened to 20 inches as I remember, and the magazine had been cut in half. This old rifle had a crescent shaped butt plate, with sharp points at the top and bottom. It was of course chambered for 30-30. I did not know back then that the proper way to mount a rifle with a crescent shaped butt plate is to hike it farther out on the shoulder joint so the points do not contact the meaty part of the shoulder. The little rifle was very light, and it kicked like the devil. I could only shoot about three shots before it hurt so much that I was flinching like crazy.

That little rifle was stolen many years ago, I wish I still had it, now that I know the proper way to mount it.

A few years ago I was able to pick up this very nice Model 1894, It is an early one, it shipped in 1895. It is nice and heavy with its 26" octagon barrel. Now that I know how to mount it, it is a pleasure to shoot. The recoil is substantial, but it is just a firm shove and it does not hurt because the points of the crescent are not digging into my shoulder.

View attachment 1060948
Looks like it's in excellent condition too.
 
My first 94 was bought new in the late 70's, for $65.00 at Gibson's Discount Center in Odessa, TX. I sold it in my early Army days for $50.00. I now own a 1986 model, bought used in Huntsville, AL.
 
My first '94 is actually, technically my wife's, but you know who shoots it, cleans it, oils it, reloads for it and takes it for walks. Anyhow, it was her uncle Cecil's, then after he died her dad's, and then he gave it to her. Not that I asked her to beg him for it, or anything like that. It's a 1949.

The funny thing is...when we first started dating, she takes me to this little town in Idaho to "meet the folks", and while there her dad takes me out to shoot some of his guns. One being the '94. At that time, I was a '94 hater, and believed that they could not group less than one foot, and most were worse. I read it somewhere!

So, I shoot it at about 100 yards, and as we walk up to see the target I'm thinking the bullets would be in at least, at the very least a ten-inch group. I was totally shocked to see a nice little tight group. That was the day the hate died for the Winchester Model 1894 Winchester.

I also have a post-64 '94, which was kind of a beater when I got it. Found it in a pawn shop for cheap, they let me talk them down too easily. When I got it home, found that it didn't function. I did "fixerup", (made a half-magazine "trapper" out of it, don't hate me) but side by side the pre-64 does just feel like the better gun. On the other hand, I have a friend that has an angle-eject in .375, and it kind of has them both beat.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top