My Garand arrived today
- Thread starter Jmurman
- Start date
- Status
Swampy
Member
jmurman,
The stock on that "show & tell" page is probably the single worst set of wood I've received from the CMP, or even seen on any M1 for that matter. It was pretty sad. It only goes to show that with a little work even the worst can be made acceptable.
BTW, I just looked over my web pages and made a couple changes. Take particular note of "Ugly Duckling to Swan - Part Deux". Down at the very bottom I added some notes regarding the use of dye & stain that will make a big difference in how wood turns out.
See... even I'm still learning....
Also BTW... I just this week took time to re-finish a couple of the Mossy US-44 .22 rifles I've had for the last couple years..... One is your basic straight grain birch, the other is a full blown tiger stripe...... Gave them both the Dishwasher treatment, Fiebings leather dye, and Tung Oil.
YOWZA !!!! I've always been a little intrigued by birch stocks, but I'm REALLY interested in what I can do with them now..... These are PURDY
Maybe next week I'll post a new page to the site showing the Mossy .22's.....
Maybe in the near future I can get to that gorgeous tiger striped birch M1 buttstock I came across a couple months back and do the same to it.
BTW, for those interested.... go to: www.swampworks.com/SwampysStuff-Home.html
Best regards to all,
Swampy
The stock on that "show & tell" page is probably the single worst set of wood I've received from the CMP, or even seen on any M1 for that matter. It was pretty sad. It only goes to show that with a little work even the worst can be made acceptable.
BTW, I just looked over my web pages and made a couple changes. Take particular note of "Ugly Duckling to Swan - Part Deux". Down at the very bottom I added some notes regarding the use of dye & stain that will make a big difference in how wood turns out.
See... even I'm still learning....
Also BTW... I just this week took time to re-finish a couple of the Mossy US-44 .22 rifles I've had for the last couple years..... One is your basic straight grain birch, the other is a full blown tiger stripe...... Gave them both the Dishwasher treatment, Fiebings leather dye, and Tung Oil.
YOWZA !!!! I've always been a little intrigued by birch stocks, but I'm REALLY interested in what I can do with them now..... These are PURDY
Maybe next week I'll post a new page to the site showing the Mossy .22's.....
Maybe in the near future I can get to that gorgeous tiger striped birch M1 buttstock I came across a couple months back and do the same to it.
BTW, for those interested.... go to: www.swampworks.com/SwampysStuff-Home.html
Best regards to all,
Swampy
Swampy
Member
jmurman,
I leave it in the DW till it shuts off.... I figure a little extra time in the "sauna" might help in pulling out more of the dings & dents.
BUT I've made sure that I've turned the "Heat Dry" to the OFF position before it starts washing. Excess dry heat could cause the wood to split after it's absorbed water & moisture.
I usually wait overnight before I start sanding (if necessary), or the dye-stain process.
Best,
Swampy
I leave it in the DW till it shuts off.... I figure a little extra time in the "sauna" might help in pulling out more of the dings & dents.
BUT I've made sure that I've turned the "Heat Dry" to the OFF position before it starts washing. Excess dry heat could cause the wood to split after it's absorbed water & moisture.
I usually wait overnight before I start sanding (if necessary), or the dye-stain process.
Best,
Swampy
Mineral spirits will work for stripping the oil out of a stock - that's if you want to invest the time in it. There's another way that's easier & gets results just as good if not better.
Easy Off.
Buy a can or two of the stuff. Then take your wood & heat it gently. (a few hours in the sun or 10-20 minutes in a 200 degree oven). Spray on the Easy Off & let it soak for a minute, then wipe it off with paper towels. Repeat this 1 or 2 more times, then hose down the wood with water. If there are some stubborn spots, repeat the heating/spraying/wiping process until it's as clean as you want. For really stubborn spots let the Easy Off soak for 10-20 minutes or so, then wipe & rinse.
That should get all the oil/comsoline out of the stock. I've never used the dishwasher method before but it seems like it'd be a good idea. Not so much for getting the oils out of the stock as the Easy Off should do that most effeciently, but for raising dents & dings.
For finishing I just wanted a stock that was impervious to weather, so I rubbed in a few coats of boiled linseed oil, very, very lightly sanding between coats & then brushed on some marine polyeurathane. when the poly was dry I lightly buffed it with some 0000 steel wool & a nylon scrub pad (balled up panty hose works well if ya have 'em & your better half won't miss 'em). After the linseed oil but before the poly, I used some wood putty to smooth out some dings & some model paint to make it match (kinda). It's not the best looking stock because of the wood putty/paint thing, but it's durable & shouldn't be affected too much by changes in humidity.
Course if I had it to do over again I might use the dishwasher treatment after the Easy Off to make it a really good looking stock. As it is though I knew I'd replace the wood before I got the rifle so I didn't care too much about the stocks looks.
One thing about surplus stocks: the trigger guard locks the action in the stock by pressure it applies to the floorplate of the trigger housing. This is necessary for a good shooting garand. The more pressure it can exert, the easier it'll be to make the rifle accurate. But if the stock is compressed from years or decades of the oil-soaked wood having pressure on it, it won't be able to lock up as good as it could & accuracy won't be as good as it can be. So a new stock is a fairly cheap way (assuming it's decent quality) to improve accuracy. Hence the surplus stocks are fine for garands meant for casual plinking & huting, but any serious hunter or competitor should have new wood to work with in getting the garand to be as accurate as possible.
Easy Off.
Buy a can or two of the stuff. Then take your wood & heat it gently. (a few hours in the sun or 10-20 minutes in a 200 degree oven). Spray on the Easy Off & let it soak for a minute, then wipe it off with paper towels. Repeat this 1 or 2 more times, then hose down the wood with water. If there are some stubborn spots, repeat the heating/spraying/wiping process until it's as clean as you want. For really stubborn spots let the Easy Off soak for 10-20 minutes or so, then wipe & rinse.
That should get all the oil/comsoline out of the stock. I've never used the dishwasher method before but it seems like it'd be a good idea. Not so much for getting the oils out of the stock as the Easy Off should do that most effeciently, but for raising dents & dings.
For finishing I just wanted a stock that was impervious to weather, so I rubbed in a few coats of boiled linseed oil, very, very lightly sanding between coats & then brushed on some marine polyeurathane. when the poly was dry I lightly buffed it with some 0000 steel wool & a nylon scrub pad (balled up panty hose works well if ya have 'em & your better half won't miss 'em). After the linseed oil but before the poly, I used some wood putty to smooth out some dings & some model paint to make it match (kinda). It's not the best looking stock because of the wood putty/paint thing, but it's durable & shouldn't be affected too much by changes in humidity.
Course if I had it to do over again I might use the dishwasher treatment after the Easy Off to make it a really good looking stock. As it is though I knew I'd replace the wood before I got the rifle so I didn't care too much about the stocks looks.
One thing about surplus stocks: the trigger guard locks the action in the stock by pressure it applies to the floorplate of the trigger housing. This is necessary for a good shooting garand. The more pressure it can exert, the easier it'll be to make the rifle accurate. But if the stock is compressed from years or decades of the oil-soaked wood having pressure on it, it won't be able to lock up as good as it could & accuracy won't be as good as it can be. So a new stock is a fairly cheap way (assuming it's decent quality) to improve accuracy. Hence the surplus stocks are fine for garands meant for casual plinking & huting, but any serious hunter or competitor should have new wood to work with in getting the garand to be as accurate as possible.
Now Easy Off I do know about. DO NOT USE IT!!! Easy Off contains lye which will penetrate the fibers, attack the cellulose, break down the wood, and end up damaging the stock permanently. It may work to get the stock clean, but in the long run isn't worth it. Leave the Easy Off for the oven and use kinder and gentler methods to clean your stock.
I know several people who use and swear by oven cleaner. But I share Houndawg's concerns and choose a different route. I start with a generous dose of brake cleaner/acetone to get the majority of the nastyness out of the wood. Then into the diswasher (while wife is away for day ). Let dry at least a day and then follow with a mineral spirits rubdown to get all the soap and residue off the surface.
Those dings that remain can be steamed out with an iron. Wet a paper towel, place over the ding to saturate wood, heat with the hot iron and repeat until the ding is gone. I like to heat the wood through the paper towel, never touching the wood with the iron, but others take the direct iron to wood approach.
Sand stock, then wet to raise grain that was rolled over during sanding, and give a good rubbing with 00 steel wool. Smooth as a baby's behind.
I've tried BLO, but prefer Linspeed Oil. Lasts longer, protects the wood better and gives a nice deep, satin finish. A friend prefers satin finish Deft, which looks absolutely great but I'm not convinced about the durability.
). Let dry at least a day and then follow with a mineral spirits rubdown to get all the soap and residue off the surface.Those dings that remain can be steamed out with an iron. Wet a paper towel, place over the ding to saturate wood, heat with the hot iron and repeat until the ding is gone. I like to heat the wood through the paper towel, never touching the wood with the iron, but others take the direct iron to wood approach.
Sand stock, then wet to raise grain that was rolled over during sanding, and give a good rubbing with 00 steel wool. Smooth as a baby's behind.
I've tried BLO, but prefer Linspeed Oil. Lasts longer, protects the wood better and gives a nice deep, satin finish. A friend prefers satin finish Deft, which looks absolutely great but I'm not convinced about the durability.
Swampy
Member
Many users have also reported that the Easy Off treatment will sometimes turn the wood a really putrid green color. This usually never shows up until a few days-weeks after the final finish is on. Must be something to do with the lye content.
Best to all,
Swampy
Best to all,
Swampy
Nando Aqui
Member
Swampy,
In my limited experience at finishing gunstocks, I have tried only Casey's True-Oil (fine if you like the luster) and BLO. I have used numerous other finishes (varnishes, laquers, etc.) but for cabinet and furniture.
It appears that you have tried a number of finishing oils on your gunstocks.
If I may ask: Which is your favorite?
Thanks!
Alex
In my limited experience at finishing gunstocks, I have tried only Casey's True-Oil (fine if you like the luster) and BLO. I have used numerous other finishes (varnishes, laquers, etc.) but for cabinet and furniture.
It appears that you have tried a number of finishing oils on your gunstocks.
If I may ask: Which is your favorite?
Thanks!
Alex
Swampy
Member
Nando Aqui asks:
It depends on the desired end result....
For the traditional GI type look and finish I'm definitely becoming partial to Tung Oil (either pure Tung or the Minwax Tung Oil Finish) with BLO and the Fiebings Leather dyes as the undercoatings. The pure Tung does take longer between coats because it's natural and has no added dryers. You have to let it dry overnight and sometimes longer between coats. Patience is a virtue with pure Tung. The Minwax Tung Oil finish has dryer additives and will cure out much quicker.
If you want a more waterproof type finish, say for a hunting rifle or a Match Rifle, then either B-C Tru-Oil, or a good spray on Polyurethane varnish.
I've tried other type finishes... but these are the ones I keep coming back to.
*****
Application process:
For the initial BLO treatments I use a 2" camels hair brush to paint it on (thinned 50-50 with Mineral Spirits), then immediately wipe it down with paper towels.... let dry, then repeat as desired after 3-4 hours. When finished let dry overnight at minimum.
I apply the Fiebings leather dye with the little "fuzz ball on a stick" applicators they sell at the leather shop, then immediately wipe down with paper towels to prevent over-dying. Add additional coatings if desired.
The first coat or two of Tung will be brushed on and wiped off same as the BLO. As the finish begins to build up, about the 3rd or 4th coating, I'll switch from brush to applying it with my fingers. I dip 2-3 fingertips in the Tung (just a FEW drops!!!) and start rubbing it into the wood. Keep rubbing and spreading, or "stretching" the oil until it starts to feel dry or tacky, then dip more oil and keep working your way along the wood.
After abut the second coat of "stretched" Tung is dry, rub it down COMPLETELY with 0000 grade steel wool. When I say COMPLETELY, I mean that you will see the surface of the Tung start to "gray up" with the initial stripping action of the steel wool, then as you add more elbow grease you will see it start to develop a sheen. This is the effect you want over all the wood..... Get those elbows moving and bear down....
Once this is done you'll have a stock that will be all you expect of a nice GI looking piece of hardwood. Protected from the elements with a sheen (not shiny) that just says "NICE WOOD"... all the way around.
Hope it works for you....
best to all,
Swampy
Garands forever
It depends on the desired end result....
For the traditional GI type look and finish I'm definitely becoming partial to Tung Oil (either pure Tung or the Minwax Tung Oil Finish) with BLO and the Fiebings Leather dyes as the undercoatings. The pure Tung does take longer between coats because it's natural and has no added dryers. You have to let it dry overnight and sometimes longer between coats. Patience is a virtue with pure Tung. The Minwax Tung Oil finish has dryer additives and will cure out much quicker.
If you want a more waterproof type finish, say for a hunting rifle or a Match Rifle, then either B-C Tru-Oil, or a good spray on Polyurethane varnish.
I've tried other type finishes... but these are the ones I keep coming back to.
*****
Application process:
For the initial BLO treatments I use a 2" camels hair brush to paint it on (thinned 50-50 with Mineral Spirits), then immediately wipe it down with paper towels.... let dry, then repeat as desired after 3-4 hours. When finished let dry overnight at minimum.
I apply the Fiebings leather dye with the little "fuzz ball on a stick" applicators they sell at the leather shop, then immediately wipe down with paper towels to prevent over-dying. Add additional coatings if desired.
The first coat or two of Tung will be brushed on and wiped off same as the BLO. As the finish begins to build up, about the 3rd or 4th coating, I'll switch from brush to applying it with my fingers. I dip 2-3 fingertips in the Tung (just a FEW drops!!!) and start rubbing it into the wood. Keep rubbing and spreading, or "stretching" the oil until it starts to feel dry or tacky, then dip more oil and keep working your way along the wood.
After abut the second coat of "stretched" Tung is dry, rub it down COMPLETELY with 0000 grade steel wool. When I say COMPLETELY, I mean that you will see the surface of the Tung start to "gray up" with the initial stripping action of the steel wool, then as you add more elbow grease you will see it start to develop a sheen. This is the effect you want over all the wood..... Get those elbows moving and bear down....
Once this is done you'll have a stock that will be all you expect of a nice GI looking piece of hardwood. Protected from the elements with a sheen (not shiny) that just says "NICE WOOD"... all the way around.
Hope it works for you....
best to all,
Swampy
Garands forever
Nando Aqui
Member
Swampy -
(1) Thanks!
(2) For new, rather plainly finished stocks such as the new SA M1A walnut stocks and Boyd M1 stocks, is it OK to just apply the B-C True Oil (for the M1A) or the Minwax Tung Oil Finish (for the M1 Garand) over the existing finish?
You see, since the wood looks rather bare (both instances), I can't tell if there is any finish other than stain. I'm afraid that any sanding (they are very smooth already anyway) may take some of the stain off, as from edges and corners.
Thanks again,
Alex
(1) Thanks!
(2) For new, rather plainly finished stocks such as the new SA M1A walnut stocks and Boyd M1 stocks, is it OK to just apply the B-C True Oil (for the M1A) or the Minwax Tung Oil Finish (for the M1 Garand) over the existing finish?
You see, since the wood looks rather bare (both instances), I can't tell if there is any finish other than stain. I'm afraid that any sanding (they are very smooth already anyway) may take some of the stain off, as from edges and corners.
Thanks again,
Alex
Swampy
Member
Nando Aqui,
1) Welcome
2) I could be wrong, but I'm fairly certain that Boyd's finished M1 stocks (BTW, your M1-A stock is also Boyd's) are all finished without stain, and just a BLO dip as a finish..... Anyway, I'm pretty sure that's how the ones I've seen are done. My own M1-A (vintage late '98) has a Boyd's stock with BLO finish, unstained.
The "bare look" to the Boyd's stocks is typical of a plain BLO finish. If you are diligent and want to spend the time you can repeatedly apply BLO to a stock until the wood becomes fully saturated, then buff it down to a light sheen, but unfortunately, even this treatment does not make wood nearly as waterproof as other finishes, i.e. Tung Oil, Tru-Oil, or Polyurethane. If you like a GI appearance but still want the best protection you can give the wood, definitely go with the Tung. Tru-Oil and Poly are very protective finishes, but you just can't easily make them look like the GI wood.
BTW, supposedly the old barracks saw about new stock treatment with BLO goes like this.... "Once a day for a week, once a week for a month, once a month for a year, once a year for the rest of your hitch".
Tung Oil is much more durable and does not require nearly as much successive applications. If the history gurus on M1's are correct, BLO is not actually the US Army's preferred stock treatment anyway... We only went to it early in WWII because the Asian supply sources of Tung were cut off by Japanese expansion. BLO was the best alternative at the time. After the war we went back to Tung Oil as the factory stock finish.
Re the B-C Tru-Oil.... not sure if it will go over BLO or not. I'm guessing that it will. You might have to try it on a spot inside the foreend to see if it applies evenly, beads up, or "fisheyes" on you. If it looks OK, the go for it.
Re Tung Oil.... a big YES on putting it over top of BLO.
More rambling from the Swampster.....
Best to all,
Swampy
1) Welcome
2) I could be wrong, but I'm fairly certain that Boyd's finished M1 stocks (BTW, your M1-A stock is also Boyd's) are all finished without stain, and just a BLO dip as a finish..... Anyway, I'm pretty sure that's how the ones I've seen are done. My own M1-A (vintage late '98) has a Boyd's stock with BLO finish, unstained.
The "bare look" to the Boyd's stocks is typical of a plain BLO finish. If you are diligent and want to spend the time you can repeatedly apply BLO to a stock until the wood becomes fully saturated, then buff it down to a light sheen, but unfortunately, even this treatment does not make wood nearly as waterproof as other finishes, i.e. Tung Oil, Tru-Oil, or Polyurethane. If you like a GI appearance but still want the best protection you can give the wood, definitely go with the Tung. Tru-Oil and Poly are very protective finishes, but you just can't easily make them look like the GI wood.
BTW, supposedly the old barracks saw about new stock treatment with BLO goes like this.... "Once a day for a week, once a week for a month, once a month for a year, once a year for the rest of your hitch".
Tung Oil is much more durable and does not require nearly as much successive applications. If the history gurus on M1's are correct, BLO is not actually the US Army's preferred stock treatment anyway... We only went to it early in WWII because the Asian supply sources of Tung were cut off by Japanese expansion. BLO was the best alternative at the time. After the war we went back to Tung Oil as the factory stock finish.
Re the B-C Tru-Oil.... not sure if it will go over BLO or not. I'm guessing that it will. You might have to try it on a spot inside the foreend to see if it applies evenly, beads up, or "fisheyes" on you. If it looks OK, the go for it.
Re Tung Oil.... a big YES on putting it over top of BLO.
More rambling from the Swampster.....
Best to all,
Swampy
I stripped my Garand down to the bones on Friday. Took your advice Swampy and stripped it then did the dishwasher thing. I must say that without seeing the pics you took of yours in the dishwasher, I would'nt have done that. I am amazed at what the difference is!
Yesterday I put two coats of Formbys Tung oil on and it soaked it right up. I will say that I didn't get the High Gloss Tung oil, but the Low Gloss version. I am thinking now that I will put a couple more coats on, until the wood starts getting filled up and then Varathane it.
I did find one small crack in the hand guard, which I fixed with a good wood glue, then lightly sanded.
I am going to try to post a pic of the "before" and after when it gets done.
Also, I have two different woods on this rifle. The hand guard is Birch. In time I will try to find a walnut handguard.
Yesterday I put two coats of Formbys Tung oil on and it soaked it right up. I will say that I didn't get the High Gloss Tung oil, but the Low Gloss version. I am thinking now that I will put a couple more coats on, until the wood starts getting filled up and then Varathane it.
I did find one small crack in the hand guard, which I fixed with a good wood glue, then lightly sanded.
I am going to try to post a pic of the "before" and after when it gets done.
Also, I have two different woods on this rifle. The hand guard is Birch. In time I will try to find a walnut handguard.
About grease for the Garand. I went to my Parts dept today and got a 1lb tub of Castrol Lithium wheel bearing grease. Will this work on the Garand? Do I realy need Lubriplate?
By the way. When I was stripping the wood of the cosmoline, I noticed that there was a piece of tape on the underside of the grip portion of the stock. This tape is ancient! After scraping it off...it wouldn't come off with stripper...I see that the numbers 41 are stamped into the wood. What do these numbers mean, if anything?
By the way. When I was stripping the wood of the cosmoline, I noticed that there was a piece of tape on the underside of the grip portion of the stock. This tape is ancient! After scraping it off...it wouldn't come off with stripper...I see that the numbers 41 are stamped into the wood. What do these numbers mean, if anything?
- Status