Naturalized Citizens and the Presidency

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Moparmike

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I was watching Communist News Network's Headline News and an anchorman said that there is an effort in both houses of Congress for an amendment to CONUS to let Naturalized Citizens run for President. :fire: :cuss:

Am I the only one who sees a problem with this? I like Arnie and all (as an actor, dunno as Guv) but if he isnt a natural-born citizen then he shouldnt be President.

Gawd I hate the way things are going in this country. Maybe the election of Arnie (even if he is a RINO) is a sign of better times. Then I can go on whining about how uber-conservative and invasive the Republicans are.:p
 
No, I wouldnt have a problem with Oleg or some people here if qualified for office.

(Loooonngg sigh) Well, its simply how the CONUS was written. Just because one person comes over here and gets guaranteed a bunch of privledges and rights, doesnt mean that they should be entitled to all privledges associated with being a natural-born citizen. There are limits on privledges you know. Just because I am born in the US and have the freedom of travel doesnt mean that I can go places that are "Off limits" (like Area 51, much of the CIA, etc). When someone immigrates here, they are guaranteed rights and privledges. We guarantee the right of representation, and all those listed in the BOR. Just because we reserve the highest office in the land for those whom were born here doesnt make us horrible people.

My point was that they are pushing for it so they can try to get Arnold to be Pres. I am annoyed, nay, outraged at just how far this PC crap has gone. IT has to stop somewhere, but some people dont see it like that.:scrutiny: :cuss:

Damnit, I wish I could express my opinions more clearly and not come off sounding so pompus and elitist. Its not how I feel, but more how it comes accross.:(
 
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well, if they can pass a Consitutional Amendment, more power to 'em I guess. I doubt the issue will get any steam after Arnie's had his day though, and expect it'll go the way of the ERA. (yeah, if I'm wrong, feel free to tease :p)

At the very least, it got them to actually read the Constitution. How often does that happen?

Speaking from principle, I'd sooner see higher standards for citizenship PERIOD, mostly along the lines of "you earn it, you ain't born with it" rather than different "grades" of citizenship. There's a lotta domestic "citizens" who scarcely merit the name, and quite a few immigrants who are more American in their hearts than many of those born here ever will be.

-K
 
I might have a problem with them, I don't know. Being on this board doesn't make someone a potential Presidential candidate.
I see no problem with allowing naturalized citizens to become President. Why not ? The people still have to vote for them. I can't think of very many people that could do worse then komrade klinton and he was born here. I would rather have a guy that cleans toilets for a living in Fiji than hillary. Should there be some kind of cut off ? I don't know. What if someone was born overseas and came here when they were an infant ? What about someone that never lived a day in this country ?
 
Since the constitution was written to exclude the possibility that someone with divided loyalties would undermine the country, I'm satisfied with the exclusion of naturalized citizens from the presidency.

Hell, I'm even against folks from one state moving into another state 18 months or so before the next election, buying a house to establish residency and running for Senate from that state. ;) :barf:
 
I really have no problem at all with the law as it is. That law isn't the reason there are so many great candidates not involved in politics. I believe rather it's the practice of "opponent research", i.e. digging up dirt from 30 years ago in a person's past, that has more to do with eliminating otherwise excellent leaders. Who needs it, and who wants to put their family through it?

I say let that sleeping dog lie. geegee
 
Actually, there's a wider point to this one. The specific exclusion is for anyone not born on U.S. soil. This disqualifies literally millions of Americans who are born to U.S. parents on foreign soil (think military bases in Europe, Asia, etc., diplomat's families, etc.). All of them are also disqualified from running for President. Is this just?

On the subject of immigrants: I'm one myself, and when I'm finally allowed to take the oath of citizenship in a couple of years, I shall be extremely proud of my American nationality. I don't have any intention of running for political office, but I would think that if I've sweated blood to get through the bureaucratic and financial hurdles of first getting a work visa, then converting this to a permanent resident's permit, and finally getting citizenship (and going through the Federal law enforcement background check on the way, so that I already serve this country in its law enforcement community), surely I should be free to serve this country in any other way I wish - even politically?

I'm not sure that the Constitution is right on this point. It doesn't worry me personally, as I have no interest whatsoever in being President: but if we had a truly outstanding candidate (and no, I don't think Ahnold is that person!) who was otherwise eminently suitable for the position, why should he/she not be allowed to run? We could always have some qualification that he/she has to have been a U.S. citizen for, say, ten or twenty years before being eligible - but I don't think it's fair to close the door completely.

Just my $0.02 worth...
 
Cuchulainn, are you sure about that? I've heard a number of my fellow LEO's (who were born to military families overseas) state that they can't run for President because of being born outside the USA.

Does anyone else know anything about this?
 
Father, yes.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/campaigns/junkie/archive/junkie070998.htm
Some might define the term "natural-born citizen" as one who was born on United States soil. But the First Congress, on March 26, 1790, approved an act that declared, "The children of citizens of the United States that may be born beyond sea, or outside the limits of the United States, shall be considered as natural-born citizens of the United States." That would seem to include McCain, whose parents were both citizens and whose father was a Navy officer stationed at the U.S. naval base in Panama at the time of John's birth in 1936.
 
(5) 'Sect. 2. No person except a natural born citizen or a Citizen of the U. S. at the time of the adoption of this Constitution shall be eligible to the office of President; nor shall any person be elected to that office, who shall be under the age of thirty five years, and who has not been in the whole, at least fourteen years a resident within the U. S.'

Quite specific. Born within the continental boundaries and/or before 1787 (quite exclusive there), almost 3 dozen years of age (must have some life experience under one's belt) and have resided within continental boundaries for 14 years. I failed to find any notations on the debate for this particular phrase http://www.usconstitution.net/consttop_ccon.html
it seems to have worked so far with minimal difficulties... if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

There is some ambiguity involved in the language, similar to the 2nd, but as I read it, born here, 35 yrs old min, and 14 year resident within borders or no-go for President. It does stop certain people, like Henry Kissinger or Arnold, from presiding over the executive branch of our Federal gov't, but I see no problem there since it did allow WJC and RMN to sit in the same office as HST and TR, 2 of the good ones of the past century.

Adios
 
http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/data/constitution/article02/03.html
U.S. Constitution : Article II

Clause 5. Qualifications

All Presidents since and including Martin Van Buren were born in the United States subsequent to the Declaration of Inde pendence. The only issue with regard to the qualifications set out in this clause, which appears to be susceptible of argument, is whether a child born abroad of American parents is ''a natural born citizen'' in the sense of the clause. Such a child is a citizen as a consequence of statute. 94 Whatever the term ''natural born'' means, it no doubt does not include a person who is ''naturalized.'' Thus, the answer to the question might be seen to turn on the interpretation of the first sentence of the first section of the Fourteenth Amendment, providing that ''[a]ll persons born or naturalized in the United States'' are citizens. 95 Significantly, however, Congress, in which a number of Framers sat, provided in the Naturalization act of 1790 that ''the children of citizens of the United States, that may be born beyond the sea, . . . shall be considered as natural born citizens. . . .'' 96 This phrasing followed the literal terms of British statutes, beginning in 1350, under which persons born abroad, whose parents were both British subjects, would enjoy the same rights of inheritance as those born in England; beginning with laws in 1709 and 1731, these statutes expressly provided that such persons were natural-born subjects of the crown. 97 There is reason to believe, therefore, that the phrase includes persons who become citizens at birth by statute because of their status in being born abroad of American citizens. 98 Whether the Supreme Court would decide the issue should it ever arise in a ''case or controversy'' as well as how it might decide it can only be speculated about.



Footnotes

[Footnote 94] 8 U.S.C. Sec. 1401.

[Footnote 95] Reliance on the provision of an Amendment adopted subsequent to the constitutional provision being interpreted is not precluded by but is strongly militated against by the language in Freytag v. CIR, 501 U.S. 868, 886 -887 (1991), in which the Court declined to be bound by the language of the 25th Amendment in determining the meaning of ''Heads of Departments'' in the appointments clause. See also id., 917 (Justice Scalia concurring). If the Fourteenth Amendment is relevant and the language is exclusive, that is, if it describes the only means by which persons can become citizens, then, anyone born outside the United States would have to be considered naturalized in order to be a citizen, and a child born abroad of American parents is to be considered ''naturalized'' by being statutorily made a citizen at birth. Although dictum in certain cases supports this exclusive interpretation of the Fourteenth Amendment, United States v. Wong Kim Ark, 169 U.S. 649, 702 - 703 (1898); cf. Montana v. Kennedy, 366 U.S. 308, 312 (1961), the most recent case in its holding and language rejects it. Rogers v. Bellei, 401 U.S. 815 (1971).

[Footnote 96] Act of March 26, 1790, 1 Stat. 103, 104 (emphasis supplied). See Weedin v. Chin Bow, 274 U.S. 657, 661 -666 (1927); United States v. Wong Kim Ark, 169 U.S. 649, 672 -675 (1898). With minor variations, this language remained law in subsequent reenactments until an 1802 Act, which omitted the italicized words for reasons not discernable. See Act of Feb. 10, 1855, 10 Stat. 604 (enacting same provision, for offspring of American-citizen fathers, but omitting the italicized phrase).

[Footnote 97] 25 Edw. 3, Stat. 2 (1350); 7 Anne, ch. 5, Sec. 3 (1709); 4 Geo. 2, ch. 21 (1731).

[Footnote 98] See, e.g., Gordon,Who Can Be President of the United States: The Unresolved Enigma, 28 Md. L. Rev. 1 (1968).
 
Preacherman,

You could serve in any elected position at the federal level OTHER than President or VP.
 
I am against it simply because it would mean a change in the Constitution.

If it wasn't for that I would have no problem with a naturalized citizen becoming the President provided that he met the criteria for the job, namely the 14 year US residency. I'd dare say that the majority of voting america would embrace a candidate that stood for everything they believed in regardless of whether or not they were born to American parents or on U.S. soil. A candidate that is pro gun, budget conscious and anti UN would definitely get my vote.

How about this....

An illegal comes over the border and enters the emergency room at the last minute to have her baby. It is against the law to refuse her attention, so her child immediately becomes a U.S. Citizen. The child grows up in Mexico and decides to later come to the US as an adult. Stays 14 years and then runs for President.



Good Shooting
Red
 
I agree...not worth another amendment. Were you thinking of running, Oleg?

Moparmike, as an aside: CONUS is commonly understood to be a military accronym representing the CONtinental United States, as used in official Orders, Directives and the like. I've seen you use it here and elsewhere as an abbreviation for the Constitution and thought you'd appreciate the info.
 
Ok. Learn somthing everyday... "The More You Know" (NBC TMYK tones...);)

I am glad I am not the only one who feels that way. I dont quite have the knack for communication that Tamara does, and the only way I can really express my opinion on the subject comes accross as elitist, which I dont mean it to be. Thanks again.

[Smarmy British Accent]

The trouble with elitists is that they think they are superior, and tarnish the good name of those of us who are superior.

[/Smarmy British Accent]:D :rolleyes:
 
Before we deal with that issue we'd better deal with the issue
of illegal aliens giving birth to "legal citizens" on our soil.
That one is going to come back and bite us bigtime one of these days.
If ever the CONUS begged for revision, it's there.
 
And while attempts are being made by the Republicans to amend the Consitution to allow Arnie to run for POTUS, the Democrats will add to that Amendment a provision that removes the the two term limitation for POTUS so Bill Clinton can run again, and again, and again, and again. I have to stop. I am getting dizzy with the thought.
 
Schwarzenegger aside, I don't have a problem with them removing that requirement for the presidency. What possible benefit is realized from requiring only 'native-born' persons to serve in the office of POTUS?

Immigrants, practically speaking, are more likely to be pro-freedom, since they almost assuredly came here from some place with considerably less.
 
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