Nazi Germany relaxed gun laws?

[Deanimator]

Nazism was racist, but racism, horrible as it was, was not the ONLY problem with Nazism. Not by a long shot.

Fortunately, the other things wrong with it (such as being organized like "Little Nicky" Scarfo's Mafia crew) helped destroy it. Of course, driving away or murdering all of the Jewish nuclear scientists didn't HELP it much.

All of the things which inevitably destroy neo-Nazi movements in this country, conspired to destroy the original. And that's a good thing.

 

[ilbob]

This subject has been debated all over the place.

Bottom line is that it was easy to be allowed to keep and bear arms under the Nazi government if you were part of the Nazi accepted group(s). If you were not part of those groups, you could not legally do so.

Not much different than what we have in this country, in many respects, but in many respects quite different.

 

[ArmedBear]

Deanimator, I disagree with that. It's too simplistic.

Too many Americans now seem to think that, if we fight against racism, we've won the battle against the authoritarian brutality of the Nazis.

That's simply not true, and I think that it can divert people from seeing the real enemy. In many ways, the Holocaust was incidental to Nazism, not the other way around. To prevent another Holocaust, we must fight against authoritarian brutality, not the opposite.

 

[Deanimator]

Deanimator, I disagree with that. It's too simplistic.

Too many Americans now seem to think that, if we fight against racism, we've won the battle against the authoritarian brutality of the Nazis.

That's simply not true, and I think that it can divert people from seeing the real enemy. In many ways, the Holocaust was incidental to Nazism, not the other way around. To prevent another Holocaust, we must fight against authoritarian brutality, not the opposite.

I don't think you've done enough SERIOUS reading about National Socialism. The National Socialist state was a creature entirely of Hitler's imagination, and the ripples emanating therefrom. Hitler created a state to implement his racial fantasies and was more than willing to destroy that state in the service of that goal. The higher priority placed upon exterminating the Jews than supplying the Wehrmacht is proof of that.

Authoritarianism almost inevitably produces mass murder. I doesn't inevitably produce industrial mass murder on the basis of race and ethnicity as a goal overriding the very survival of the state.

Contrast the Holocaust with the Stalinschina. The Nazi state was a way to implement the elimination of the Jews. Mass murder and slavery were ways to build the Soviet state. Stalin's murders and forced labor frequently crippled the Soviet economy and military, but they were always a MEANS, not an END. In practical terms, the Soviets murdered more people. In moral terms, they were identical.

Let me recommend that you read Heinz Hoehne's "Order of the Death's Head" and Antonov-Ovseenko's "In the Time of Stalin". You'll see the difference.

 

[ArmedBear]

Serious reading?

My entire family experienced it firsthand. They saw how Hitler gained power; they heard his speeches and propaganda. They saw the reactions of crowds and individuals.

If you don't understand how the Holocaust was a MEANS, as much as an end, you should read something different. That's what I mean: people think they're getting the real story are not. It's being re-told so that it's all about Hitler's racist fantasies. That ignores a lot of things, not the least of which is the number of people Hitler had to enlist in his Reich in order to have so much power, and conquer a continent and a half, and how he pulled it off.

Sometimes, what you read is only as good as who wrote it, and their own biases.

It has also been written that Hitler didn't much care about the Jews at all, but needed a scapegoat and a group to loot. For various sociological reasons, the German Jews fit perfectly into the plan. I think that, too, misses a few things. The truth is somewhere in between.

I don't think it's necessarily valid to look at what Hitler, an insane, once-powerful dictator going down in flames, did in 1944 and 45, as a full indication of his initial motives and methods. Furthermore, Hitler himself was a figment of imagination, or rather, showmanship and propaganda. The motives and actions of all Nazis need to be taken into account, when looking at what happened and why.

The American Civil War didn't happen simply because people south of the Mason-Dixon line hated black people, either. Or Jefferson Davis, or anyone else in particular, even if they were racists. It seems Robert E. Lee wasn't motivated by support for slavery at all. The same goes for Nazi Germany and those who built it. Like I said, too simple.

In moral terms, they were identical.

That much is true.

 

[Deanimator]

Serious reading?

My entire family experienced it firsthand.

If you don't understand how the Holocaust was a MEANS, as much as an end, you should read something different. That's what I mean: people think they're getting the real story are not. It's being re-told so that it's all about Hitler's racist fantasies. That ignores a lot of things, not the least of which is the number of people Hitler had to enlist in his Reich in order to have so much power, and conquer a continent and a half, and how he pulled it off.

Sometimes, what you read is only as good as who wrote it, and their own biases.

My family experienced slavery. I'll bet my mother couldn't explain the role of slavery in Southern economics and politics if her life depended upon it.

Generalized anti-Semitism was a means by which Hitler achieved power. The specific TOTAL elimination of the Jews was his end. The Fuehrerprinzip and everything else were merely means to that end. You can never get around the fact that when he had to choose the survival of the NSDAP state or the elimination of the Jews, he ALWAYS put a higher priority on the latter.

When it comes to documentation of the SS and its role in the Holocaust, you won't get much better than Heinz Hoehne. He's the GERMAN slap in the face to every lie ever told by a Holocaust denier.

 

[The Lone Haranguer]

William L. Pierce?

According to Wiki, William Luther Pierce is the author of The Turner Diaries. FWIW.

 

[Deanimator]

William L. Pierce?
According to Wiki, William Luther Pierce is the author of The Turner Diaries. FWIW.

There was an amusing article about him in New Republic, just before 9/11. He wrote one of his typically inane works of stupidity, proclaiming his admiration for the Taliban, based primarily upon their stupidity and blind hatred.

 

[Nolo]

Ieyasu, how is what you said relevant at all?
I don't understand Neo-Nazis at all. I guess they're like Al-Qaeda and gangs, people who want to belong so they turn to a cool secret organization. It's a lack of purpose in life, I guess.

 

[Hauptmann]

Most of the comments I've seen interpret Germany under Hitler as being guilded by some sort of rational. Frankly, I think Hitler became a mad man after coming to power. Historical accounts mention that Hitler was taking a lot of different medications for not only physical ailments, but for mental health as well. In fact, Hitler had his personal doctor come down into the bunker with him during his final hours and that doctor brought a bag full of Hitler's personal meds with him. We have many cases throughout history of national leaders taking all kinds of medicines which drove them mad and resulted in genocide on massive scales. For instance Ivan the Terrible took many medications some using Mercury. He became paranoid and irrational in his later years killing many of his close advisors, friends, familiy, and the population in general. Qin Shi Huang who was the first emperor of China also took many medications, some confirmed to contain Mercury and he went on a similar rampage as that of Ivan the Terrible. The two primary symptoms of mental health problems are increase paranoia, and out of control emotional reactions which dictate behavior. Hitler showed these signs many times in his private life. I think Hitler wanted a greater Germany initially, but he despised the Jews so much that after his mental problems got worse he lost control of logic and focused all his attention on his hate......killing as many Jews as he could.

What's scary is that most of the Congress and the Senate is composed of people taking all kinds of medications including meds for mental health.

 

[JohnL2]

What's scary is that most of the Congress and the Senate is composed of people taking all kinds of medications including meds for mental health.

Could you elaborate please?
A friend emailed me some stats on how many legislators have criminal records. If it is true, you would be surprised. And frightened.

 

[Tommygunn]

I think Hitler became a mad man after coming to power. Historical accounts mention that Hitler was taking a lot of different medications for not only physical ailments, but for mental health as well. In fact, Hitler had his personal doctor come down into the bunker with him during his final hours and that doctor brought a bag full of Hitler's personal meds with him.

Author Robert G.L. Waite's book The Psychopathic God provides an excellent analysis of Hitler's mentality. One does have to consider the author never had the opportunity to analyze Hitler in person, and even he admits there are dangers in doing so. But if you're really interested in a good look into his psyche, that's the book. Interestingly it also provides a pretty good background of Germany, too; that helps put him in context.

 

[Deanimator]

Frankly, I think Hitler became a mad man after coming to power.

He was probably on the way there before that.

In addition, there is plausible analysis that indicates that he may have been suffering from Parkinson's Disease. Fear that he might die before he conquered Europe may have led him to advance his timetables far beyond the achieveable.

 

[Hauptmann]

Could you elaborate please?
A friend emailed me some stats on how many legislators have criminal records. If it is true, you would be surprised. And frightened.

A lot of them have admitted to being on antidepressants in which there is a very wide variety of them based on the prescription. I've also heard that a form of Ritalin is going around for so called adult ADD. An interesting connection is that most(maybe all) of the Columbine School shooters were heavily medicated youths. Mostly on antidepressants or Ritalin. I've also read that the Virgina Tech shooter was on antidepressants and other meds.

 

[TEDDY]

nazis

I had a friend who was in russian army in ww2.he was very strong on second.
also was very smart.we only talked about ww2 in his last few yrs.
his take was the jews started communisim off and starlan took it over,so the jews went to germany and started socialism there.my take is they then left europe and went to britain and then the usa. but the jews in germany owned most of the factories and business.to get the busness hitler had to kill them.
a jewiss friend told me there are two kinds of jews.the ones in Isreal and those like jfp and the the ones that run.I think most of what we see is the ones that run.and they are the most dangerous as I believe those are the ones like Shumer ect.-----:banghead:

 

[Art Eatman]

And we've gone wandering off topic...

Art