Need a little perspective from a "gunsmith's point of view".

[Gun Slinger]

Two weeks ago, I dropped off five of my Glocks to have the factory "craptastic" fixed plastic sights replaced with Heinie Standard Combat sights (front/rear sets) that I had purchased for $48.00 apiece ($240.00 total). I picked them up yesterday and the final charge for the replacement work (sights only) totalled $160.00. While some might think that this is alot of money for such work, I have no problem with paying someone well for a good job, however therein lies the issue.

This particular gunsmith has replaced this exact same brand of sights before for me on two other Glocks and did so without so much as leaving a mark on them (I believe that he used a brass punch to drift them into position) however, in this instance each one of the sights has "idiot marks"(metal deformation) on the sides of the rear sight bodies where it would apear that the tool, presumably a "sight pusher" from the tool marks left behind, marred the 'contours' of the rear sight body (not big marks but they are visible) and quite frankly, they look like crap. Kind of p!ssed off over this since I paid good money, and plenty of it too, to get this kind of "workmanship". I had made it clear to him while dropping them off for service that I would like a "repeat performance" and even discussed the use of the 'brass punch technique' as mentioned above with him.

I think that I already know the answer to the question that I am about to pose and am looking for some perspective from those here who are involved in the trade as to what I should do.

Am I making to much of this or should I just take the hit, get some new ones and have them re-installed by someone else with a bit more professional competence?

Thanks in advance for any and all constructive advice regarding this issue. It is/will be appreciated.

 

[koginam]

I have used both methods to remove and install sights but I have not seen any marks caused by the pusher. I would like to have a dissatisfied customer bring the problem to me right away so I can rectify it. I would try that first, if for some reason it doesn't work out ask for a refund, and take it to another smith. He obviously knows how to do the job since he did it correctly for you in the past.

 

[GeorgeR]

Rear sight

Most smiths, including myself, use a screw jack such as the MGW sight mover. "Hit and Hope" went out of style a long time ago. I'd go back and ask to see the sight tool he used.

 

[highorder]

your guns, your money.

If you are not satisfied, give him the chance to make it right.

 

[dirtdog]

Too many "so called" smiths out there

 

[RogersPrecision]

Sights should 'bear no witness' of the installation method used.
No dents, no scratches, no brass smears etc.

 

[rcmodel]

I just put new Meprolites on a P6 SIG using an old-school nylon punch and hammer.
And without marking the sights in the least.

The rear fit perfectly, but the front was way too tight without fitting it first.

Most replacement sights have slightly oversize dovetails on purpose.

If you don't fit them to the guns dovetails before driving them on, you almost certainly will mar the sights, if not worse.

Some I have seen came so tight, they would have certainly galded in place, welded halfway on, had they not been fitted properly first.

rcmodel

 

[Gun Slinger]

Guys,

Thanks for the input.

After thinking about it and considering all of the posts above, I'll be returning to the shop tomorrow (or Monday if he is not there on tomorrow) and have a word with him about my concerns. After thinking about it, I am of the opinion that for the cash laid down, the 'piss poor quality' is way outta line and he is going to have to make this right.

I'll let you know how things shake out after I return from the shop.

 

[Gun Slinger]

Guys,

Just returned from the "gunsmith" an hour ago. Still fuming.

To make a long story mercifully short, his response was nothing more than a shrug of his shoulders followed by the statement, "Whaddya want me to do about it?". No offer of a refund and obviously he won't be touching another one of my guns ever again. Just an apathetic shrug...

Let it suffice to say that I will not be returning to this guy ever again after he basically screwed up $2,500 worth of pistols (5 Glocks) by using a Sig pistol sight pusher to install the sights after the Glock sight pusher he was using was "too hard". Upon closer examination I noticed that the undersides of the slides had been damaged also and am now getting rid of all these pistols, most likely at a significant loss.

I normally purchase several weapons from his store every year as I shoot and hunt quite a bit, so the loss of my business will effect him a little more than the average guy and I will also be directing all my friends to buy elsewhere as well.


Unless you don't mind having your firearms butchered by an incompetent gunsmith, I would encourage you to avoid at all costs:


Cleland's Outdoor World
10306 Airport Highway
Swanton, Ohio 43558
Owner and "Gunsmith": Gary Cleland

All the best guys,

 

[bofe954]

Most places install sights free when you buy them. If you can't find a place that will do that for you, or you can't find the sights you want locally, buy a sight pusher. You can get one for less than $100, use it and sell it in the classifieds. For 5 guns it'll be well worth it.

No excuse for damaging a gun installing sights, damaging the underside of a glock slide while installing sights must have been extremely difficult. I'd talk to him again.

The answer to "Whaddya want me to do about it?" might be pistol replacement.

 

[RogersPrecision]

Gun Slinger,
I hope this experience has not soured you towards all smiths.

There are some of us out there that truly do care.
I'd rather miss a weeks pay than have an unsatisfied customer.

 

[koginam]

Gun Slinger
I was one of the ones that told you to talk with the smith and try to work something out, obviously that won't happen with his attitude.
I'm with RogersPrecision on this, I have given a customer a brand new Remington Sendero because one of my counter persons but the wrong tag on a gun when it came in for customization, I installed a muzzle break and shortened a stock when the guy wanted a trigger job, I know many smiths who care about their reputation enough to have made the problem good.
Don't give up on finding a good smith they are out their.

 

[Gun Slinger]

RogersPrecision, koginam and bofe954,


Nah, I ain't "soured" on 'smiths as a result of this. Figure I'll suffer about a $700-$900 loss on this once I liquefy them but it hits me pretty hard since I just had a little one three weeks ago and things are rather tight at this time, financially speaking. I'd trade it all though for my son and this 'incident' truly pales in significance where my little one is concerned.

I just happened to end up dealing with an asshat and cannot condemn the whole profession solely for this jerk's misdeeds. Since I was a Police Officer for over twenty years and have had to deal with folks judging me based upon the very few 'bad apples' within the field, I am unable visit the same error upon and damn an entire profession based upon the actions of just one person.

I'll just get rid of these guns and take the loss (whatever it is) and make sure to spread the word wherever I can as to how this guy has acted.

After this I will simply rebuild what I have lost in terms of the 5 Glocks that I have "lost" to his grave ineptitude starting with the funds generated by the sale of these guns to those who want them.

Now all I have to do is find another 'smith so that I can have the Heinie sights installed as was my original plan in the first place. Haven't ruled out shipping my slides to a vendor for the purpose either although I remain a bit skittish regarding the possibility of losing them 'in transit' since some of our 'common carriers' seem not to care about service anymore.

I figure that I can "reacquire" the guns in fairly short order with a little extra OT here and there to add to the funds that I can recoup from this mess.

Thanks for the replies, guys. It helps to know that there are folks out there who still take pride in their profession much as I did in mine and make it a point to do the right thing for their customers.

I am also looking into the Arotek "no gunsmithing required" sights as a possibility so that my Glocks will be completely free of the need to go to anyone for sight installation.

All the best,

 

[Gun Slinger]

UPDATE:

Well, today I "pulled the pin". Actually losing sleep over this issue last night pissed me off enough to motivate me to return to the gunshop and approach this in a different manner.

Figuring that I had nothing to lose since I have no desire whatsoever to ever patronize their shop again, I went in today at about 1:00 p.m. armed with all of the receipts of all my purchases that I have made there in the last three years (31 rifles/pistols/shotguns not to mention having been a customer there for ~10 years) and a very large "chip on my shoulder".

Demanded to see the 'smith and was told he was busy, so I ended up speaking with his wife and 'co-owner' of the shop instead. As I am standing there waiting for her to come to the counter, I observe a teenage male, 15-16 years of age, standing next to his mother who has been permitted by his Mom to pick up an AR-15 rifle and after cycling the action, aims it at his 9-10 year old sister's head and dry fires it. He then repeated this action three more times(!) just prior to the co-owner's wife coming to the counter. Appalled at what I had just witnessed, I explained to her (the co-owner) what the teenager just did and her 'response' was simply a faint smile and the comment, "Boys will be boys". :banghead::banghead::banghead:

How I managed to remain civil in light of how taken aback I was at the time I do not know but, I took a deep breath and slowly explained the situation (in the OP) and that I was extremely angry with the fact that I had just suffered a $400 loss ($240 for the sights and $160 for the "services") and wanted a little consideration for such loyalty.

I quietly explained to her that having spent just over $21,000 in just the last three years, I thought that they could most likely reimburse me the total $400 without
endangering their livelihood and that doing so might save a customer who is likely to spend more there in the future. Of course, this does not address the damage to the pistols themsleves.

After some 'back and forth' negotiating with her, she finally decided to reimburse me the 'princely sum' of $100.00 contingent on the promise that I will continue to patronize the shop for my future firearms needs. I agreed of course, but will never set foot there again so long as I continue to be able to draw a breath. After seeing all that I did in that shop today, I am convinced beyond any reasonable doubt that they are absolute morons.

So, in the short term, I mitigated my loss slightly (very, very) and have begun to move the damaged pistols. Sold one today after advising the prospective buyer of the slight damage to the under side of the slide, but he was unphased after examining it and said that he just wanted a range "beater" for his 16 year old son who was just learning to shoot and wasn't worried about the 'minor' damage. Lost about $175 on it, but I'll live. Hoping that the others will go just as fast, too.

Thanks to all who responded and offered their support in this thread.