need advice on long eye relief scope

[roscoe]

I could use a little advice on long eye relief scope. I am going to experiment with the XO scout scope mount on my Winchester 1894 since I can't seem to hit accurately beyond 150 yards or so with the iron sights (rear ghost aperture).

All I have been able to find is the Burris and Leupold, but both are pretty spendy, in fact more than the rifle. I was hoping to spend less than $200, partly because I am still experimenting with the whole concept of a forward mounted scope.

I have two questions:
1. Why not a variable power scope, say 1x to 4x ?
2. Why not a pistol scope? There seems to be more variety.

Any advice would be appreciated!

Thanks!

 

[swifter]

Pistol scopes work fine if the eye relief is OK. Weaver has a pretty nice 2--7X with a nice deep eye relief, not too pricey... I mounted one way forward on my Sheridan, works well for me.
not to discourage, but 150 yd is pretty much max for most '94s.
Tom

 

[Okiecruffler]

Some of the big bnore pistol guys are having good luck with the NCStar stuff

Under 40 bucks from CDNN. I have a 2X20 and a 4X32 and like them both, but I've only used them on rimfire so far.

 

[Soap]

Higher magnification is a no-no on a forward mounted scope IMO. Why do you hang it out there in the first place? Fast, accurate shots. The higher power precludes this. With the pistol scopes, the eye relief is generally a little too long for effective use as an intermediate eye relief setup.

 

[roscoe]

Higher magnification is a no-no on a forward mounted scope IMO.

Sure, I agree for most circumstances, since the point is getting the quick shot off. But, why not have the option of higher magnification for those times when you can settle down for a longer shot? I'm just asking, because there may be somethig about longer relief that makes this impractical.

 

[Preacherman]

Roscoe, it's a function of the design purpose of the scope.

With a conventional scope, your eye is much closer to the rear of the instrument. Your field of vision through it is consequently much, much wider. You can increase the power and still get a pretty decent field/angle of vision. With a forward-mounted scout scope (or a pistol scope), your eye is several inches at least from the rear of the scope. You're effectively looking through a narrow tube. You have a greatly diminished field of vision.

Test this for yourself. Take a piece of PVC plumber's pipe, about 1" to 1½" in diameter. Look through it with the pipe held close to your eye. Now take the pipe out to full arm's length, and look through it again. See the difference? And that's without the compensating effect of optics...

A scout scope is really designed to be used with both eyes open. You acquire the target with the left eye (for a right-handed shooter - reverse these directions if left-handed), and bring the rifle to bear on it, while at the same time acquiring the target in the scout scope. You can then close the off eye if you wish, for greater definition through the scope, but I've found it quite easy to keep both eyes open and shoot like that.

You can see that any high magnification in the scout scope would make it almost impossible to pick up your target in the very narrow field of vision it gives you. I think the Leupold 2.5x and/or Burris 2.75x are ideal for their intended purpose.

 

[roscoe]

Preacherman,

That's sort of what I thought might be the case. Since I have never even handled a scout rifle, I am still trying to figure it all out. I appreciate the two-eye-open aspect, since I shoot trap, and I currently use the ghost-ring set-up that way.

Really, the only hitch is that I will have to epoxy the XS scope mount down, which means it is there to stay even if I don't like how a scout rifle works.

Thanks for the advice, all.

 

[DMK]

I've got two of the variable Weaver Classic LERs (pistol scopes) that swifter mentioned. Both are on Mosin-Nagants, one on an M/39 and the other on a 91/59 carbine (Basically an M/44 without a Bayonette). Anybody that has a Mosin carbine will agree that they have a nice healthy kick, but the scopes are both rock solid. I'm very impressed with these "low cost" scopes.

Be sure to pay attention to the Eye Relief specs on the scopes. Measure the distance from your eye to where you expect the scope to be. IIRC, the Weaver Classic is 11". That puts the scope pretty far out there.

Personally, I like the variable. Sure, most of the time I use it at 2.5x, sometimes 4x, but it is nice to dial it up to 8x now and then for some precision work, when taking a little more time to aquire the target isn't an issue. It's nice to have options.

 

[gun-fucious]

epoxy?
i thought these were "Drop in"
http://www.ashleyoutdoors.com/scope_mount.html

XS SCOPE MOUNTS

Voted "Best New Product" for Shot Show 2001. Patented XS Lever Scout™ Weaver style rail affords easy forward mounting of Scout Scopes or Red Dot Systems. Facilitates both eyes wide open for fast moving target acquisition, speedy reference of reticle on target, as if reticle is part of your vision. Built tough from light-weight scratch resistant Hard Anodized Aluminum. Drop-in installation using rear dovetail and front receiver screw holes – requires no gunsmithing – complete kit provided for home assembly. You can even use your XS Ghost-Ring™ Sights with scope dismounted as needed.

Lever Scout Mount . . . $50
Marlin Lever models: 1895 Guide Series: 45-70, 450, 444, 1894 and 336

 

[roscoe]

gun-fucious,

Well, I am trying to get away without using the epoxy. The mount does 'bolt-on', but the lower inside diameter of the mount is much larger than the OD of the barrel. I guess that is because there have been so many different models of 1894.

Anyway, they include epoxy to fill the gap, but I am trying to figure out some other way to go, since it is a one-way proposition. Without the epoxy, it feels pretty solid between the dove-tail cut-out and the receiver, less so forward of the cut-out. I guess we shall see how it goes, because I am going to mount the scope without the epoxy, at first anyway.

 

[gun-fucious]

what about using waxpaper on the barrel side
and using an epoxy clay like PC7 to make a polymer "shim"
it will not stick to the waxpaper and sets up like stone

 

[roscoe]

gun-fucious, wow, you are reading my mind! I just need to get a scope first so I can see if I can get both scope rings to ride on the receiver side of the cutout. It depends, as I see it, on the relative position of the adjustment knobs and the overall length of the scope.

So now I am going to start checking out scopes at various gun stores.