Need help on 308 reloading press

[target4fun]

I know the basics of reloading but need some equipment, Ill let you know what I need it for and i would appricate it if yall could recommend one to me.

I need to reload .308 bullet its going to be a 175 grn, the most important thing is accuracy and the second would be speed. I was looking at the dillion press 550 this one looked good but is the accruacy there, it seems to be pretty speedy, any idea's reccomendations thanks

 

[Smokey Joe]

Speed vs. accuracy

IMHO, you can pick one extreme, speed, or the other, accuracy, in reloading equipment. If you want some of each you'll have to compromise.

Since you say accuracy is more important you should (again, my opinion, and not all will agree!) go with a single-stage press, where you can carefully control all the variables for each round. Unless you're shooting a lot more .308 than most of us, this won't take too much of your time, and you will be turning out a more accurate, repeatable, round.

You want a heavy, stable press. Cast iron or steel. The RCBS Rockchucker is probably the most common of these, and is the "gold standard," but there are several others, for about the same $$, that will do just as well. There are also even heavier models that sell for more. Any nice heavy sturdy single-stage press that you can get a deal on will do fine for .308's, and any similar round.

(If. later in your reloading career, you decide to go progressive, you'll still want a good single-stage for load development and such. So it's never a wasted purchase.)

For greatest accuracy, you will also be doing putzy things like weighing each and every powder charge, and hand-seating the primers. All of this takes time, but allows more control over the quality of the end product.

Exactly how much time and effort you want to put into each round, before you put that round into your weapon, you have to decide for yourself.

I guess it boils down to what you call accurate. If minute-of-deer accuracy is fine, then go for that, and be happy. If punching one hole in a paper, at 100 yd. or more, with 10 shots, is your idea of accuracy, well, that is another matter altogether.

 

[Jim Watson]

I load .30-06 (an all other rifle ammo) on a Rockchucker. Any name brand single stage press will do as well. There is getting to be a lot of support for the Redding T-7 turret press, but that is mainly a convenience if you load several calibers in single stage operation, not a big speed boost.

You will hear the Dillon enthusiasts talk about loading Palma Match ammo on a progressive; so it can be done. But at my level of experience, only 33 years, I want more control of each step in the process of making up ammo for match competition or trophy hunting.

I do load all pistol ammo on one or another Dillon, so I know they are good machines. I just think there is more of a learning curve to produce good rifle rounds on one and I haven't put in the work.

 

[Swamprabbit]

I definitely recommend a good single stage press like the RCBS Rockchucker. Also, my experience has been that it doesn't take long to find someone with a whole single stage setup (press, powder measure, scales, etc.) who is willing to totally sell out. These are typically great bargains and a great way to get started.

 

[P0832177]

I would spend money on good dies and get a Redding T7 Turret Press! You will do fine with a 550 but the hard part is that the Dillon Powder Measure is not known for being kind to consistent charge wt.s with stick powders.

Here is how I load:
For bulk runs of ammo for like the 223
I tumble clean my brass
I resize cases on single stage press
I trim and prep the brass

I tumble clean
I load brass on the 550! But, I use Ramshot TAC and it measures like water!
I have used IMR4895 with fair consistentcy, but Varget really does not do well with the Dillon measue! Some will use the Hornady Case Activated Powder Measure with better results!

But, for the 308 I load it one my Redding T7 turret press! The same for long range 223 ammo.

 

[Jim Watson]

You must be careful about buying second hand reloading equipment, especially sight unseen as eBay. Small parts and instructions tend to get lost and the beginning loader is SOL because he does not know what is wrong.

 

[moredes]

You haven't said what kind of shooting you intend.

I mostly agree with both previous posts, a single-staged press is probably best for the most dependable duplication of truly accurate loads. Having said that, I used to reload my .308's on an old Dillon 450. It's a semi-progressive press (the shellplate must be rotated by hand) with the automatic powder measure removed. In its' place is a drop tube, and I drop the powder by hand after measuring each charge with a scale. I'm not a benchrest shooter and am quite satisfied with the average group size produced by this press--all my rifles shoot under .5 MOA out to 300yd, including a Springfield Super Match. I have produced ammo for a stock Savage 10FP that groups ~.3MOA consistently.

My rounds aren't THAT consistent with the Dillon. "OAL" (actually, length to ogive) varies as much as .004". Headspace (to the datum line) can vary as much as .006". Powder charge is +- .075gr (of a total charge weight of ~42-44gr) using a hand-measured powder drop; the OEM Dillon powder measure was at best, capable of +- .4gr, that a lot---a swing of .8 gr. (the Hornady LNL AP that I use currently has an OEM powder measure that averages an error rate of about +- .175gr, and I'll settle for that; I can't shoot the difference between .35gr loads and call it consistently.

I'd venture an evaluation that I think still holds true today for the current Dillon product line (progressives and semi's only)-- my old Dillon was a good value--offering mass produced ammo cheaply, and is much more suited to hurried pistol ammo than "accurate" rifle ammo. Having said that, I'd say that if .5MOA is your goal, it is easily attainable with a Dillon if one makes some adjustments (especially changing powder measures) and cycles the machine slowly. This is provided the reloader goes through the rest of the rifle-loading regimen---weighing bullets, trimming cases, deburring, etc.

 

[444]

Fairly recently I have gotten much more serious about my rifle shooting. I would like to get into fairly serious competition shooting. In my research I have noted that a lot of very good rifle shooters load their ammo on a Dillon progressive press. So, I don't believe you are giving up anything in the accuracy department by using a progressive.
That being said, I load my rifle ammo on a single stage RCBS Rockchucker even though I own two Dillon 550s simply because I don't have the cartridge conversions.

 

[taliv]

my $0.02 is that if your primary goal is accuracy, then get a forster co-ax. it's a single stage press that cannot be beat for benchrest. also, definitely use their benchrest dies.

an alternative is an arbor press and some wilson hand dies.

you won't be disappointed with either. the advantage to the 2nd is that it's designed to take to the range with you, so you can work up loads easier. load one, shoot, load another, shoot, etc. instead of load 10, drive to the range, shot ten, come home, add .3 grains of powder, drive back to the range, etc

i use both for .308

 

[target4fun]

im sorry, i will clairfy i entend to do long range accuracy shooting, competion shooting... i was thinking it would be cheaper than buying black hills once i get it down of course I figured it would be more cost effective...I will be taking a nra course on reloading in a bit but kinda wanted to get an idea of what kinda equipment i want

 

[target4fun]

MY dad used to reload i talked to him and he says hes got a RCBS single stage press, he said he didnt know if he had the die or not so ill have to look into that... any idea on which die i should buy for super accurate long range competion shooting again useing a 175 grn bullet Im also going to need a scale for sure which is the best because i know a scale is cruicial

 

[target4fun]

found a die, will this die produce the best accuracy or should i go with another :

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=31825&item=7111942834&rd=1&tc=photo

Dunno if i should get a better or match grade die if that exists or what the story on that is that the best for accuracy or no?

 

[target4fun]

any one know?

 

[taliv]

forster, wilson or dillon, in that order,

 

[Smokey Joe]

RCBS dies...

are fine, but e-mail the seller and find out what an SB die is. There are FL (full-length resize) and neck-resizing-only dies; you may need both. The FL die is to return found cases to SAAMI minimum specs prior to shooting them in your rifle. The neck-size set is for use on cases previously fired in your rifle, which at that point don't need to be further resized, except to shrink the diameter of the necks to hold the bullet. I have never heard of an SB die--that may say more about me than it does about the die, but you need to know what you're bidding on.

Having said all of that, my choice for neck-sizing is the Lee Collet die, which "works" the brass less than a standard die in resizing the neck. Lee guarantees accuracy with this die, amazing as that may seem. My results with the Lee Collet die have been quite acceptable to me. Every time brass is squeezed back into shape by a die, or expanded by firing, it loses some of its elasticity--this is called working the brass. Aside from my neck-sizing Lee dies, all my others happen to be RCBS and they do their various jobs well, for me. Any "name brand" dies will do the same. Match grade dies are held to tighter tolerances in manufacturing, and you pay for the extra care. My own reloading skill level hasn't yet gotten to the point of needing those yet, can't comment on them.

Since you're going for accuracy, you may not ever need to FL size a case, because you should be buying virgin cases so as to increase the cases' uniformity. Best is to go with the high-priced--and more carefully made--Lapua or Norma cases. (You can buy Win or Rem virgin brass, cheaper, but IMHO that defeats the purpose of buying virgin brass!) Why go Cadillac on the brass? Well, for example, these cases have drilled flash holes, rather than the cheaper punched holes which have a "hanging chad" inside the case from the punch. This leftover piece is said to interfere with the flash from the primer getting to the powder uniformly. Have never tested that, but I can say that both Norma and Lapua cases are works of art in brass, and beautifully uniform case to case in both weight and dimensions. In .308 Win, by the time the cases have stretched enough lengthwise to need FL resizing they will be worn out (read, elasticity gone) and the necks splitting.

Enough, I'm rambling. When you find out what the heck an SB die is/does, please enlighten the rest of us--or at least me, for which thanks.

 

[ocabj]

I currently use Redding dies for .308:

Full Length Sizer S-Type Bushing die
Neck Only Sizer S-Type Bushing die
Competition Bullet Seater

I usually full length size my brass because I want flawless feeding for my Savage rig.

If I were going to buy a set of dies now, I might be inclined to try the new Hornady match dies. They make a neck only sizing die that uses bushings, but it also bumps the shoulder too, without sizing the body. This is actually something I would put to good use because I full length size only to bump the shoulder, and this type of die will do the same thing as well as neck size the brass without the side affect of resizing the body.

 

[444]

e-mail the seller and find out what an SB die is.

Small Base Sizer Die
Sizes the base of the case slightly smaller than the full length sizer to ensure proper functioning in automatic, semi-automatic, pump, slide and some lever action rifles.

 

[target4fun]

will this affect accuracy, that may be a good thing because i will be also useing this out of a m1a, as well as a rem 700, but if it affects accuracy i dont want it

 

[Smokey Joe]

Accuracy effect

Thanx, 444. I've learned something. Being mostly a bolt-action person, this matter had never come to my attention.

For an autoloader the small base die might be good--IF--you have feeding issues with regular FL-sized cases. However there will, I think, be a cost in accuracy. The whole idea for accurate rounds is to have them fit your chamber as closely as possible. A smaller case can "rattle around" more in a chamber than can a larger case, thus causing variation in the alignment of the case and the bullet with the bore of the weapon. The only way to tell for sure if you need a SB die is to reload with a regular FL die and see if the rifle has any trouble chambering the cases. You only want to size a case enough so that it feeds reliably, in whatever rifle you plan to use that case.

Go ahead and buy the die if it's a great deal. You'll still need a regular FL resize die, and a neck-size die. But I never heard any reloader complain of having too many dies.

For your Rem 700 you don't want to be FL sizing the cases at all--just neck size them. They will fit your chamber much more precisely, and the cases will last longer--see my previous post re. working the brass.

Something else of importance: You definitely want to segregate the cases to be used in the M1, load them for that, and only use them in that. Likewise, the cases for the Rem700 should be reserved for that gun alone, and only neck-sized. You also want to keep each lot of cases together as a unit, and treat each case in the lot the same as every other case. You'll probably end up with several lots of cases for each gun.

Once again, this is all about repeatability and uniformity in your loads--both shot to shot uniformity, and reloading to reloading.

 

[ftierson]

For a single stage press, I'd get either a RCBS Rockchucker, a Lyman Orange Crusher/Crusher II, or a Redding Boss. These are all cast iron presses, which I much prefer. Aluminum ones like the Hornady and Dillon ones will work fine, but I just don't want an aluminum one. Others swear by them... (By the way, if your reloading bench has flat sides that are several inches deep (top to bottom), avoid the old Rockchucker presses as the swinging linkage will require you to chisel out a hole in the face of the table top. I'm not sure whether the current version has changed the linkage to avoid this problem, but I wouldn't bet on it. The Lyman Orange Crusher/Crusher II press has a swinging linkage that doesn't require such gouging of the face of the table top, and it can be flush mounted even if the face extends to the floor).

Any brand of dies from any of the major manufacturers will work fine. I use mostly Lee and RCBS. Often, the Lees have advantages. I use standard FL Sizing die sets for everything, including semi rifles. I have never found any need for SB dies, but you may... I also have a couple sets of the Lee Collet Neck sizing die sets for cartridges where I want to avoid extreme overworking of the cases (.303 British, for example, due to the fact that the chambers are almost always oversized).

You don't need to search for the most expensive presses or dies to be able to turn out first rate ammo...

Have fun...

 

[444]

You might want to read this article here: http://www.zediker.com/downloads/m14.html by Glen Zediker about handloading for the M14 rifle. He briefly discusses his use of small base dies. The specific information is on page four of that download.
This article is an addition to his book "Handloading for Competition".
As I think you will see, Glen seems to be into the subject of handloading to a very deep level which goes way beyond the guy looking to handloading to save money, to shoot beer cans, or to go deer hunting.

 

[oldfart]

In all honesty,n't really matter which press you get. Some will require you to do more nit-picking than others but you can still load perfectly good ammo. The one thing you need more than a press recommendation though, is a reloading manual... maybe two or three!
I read an account a couple of years ago about how some guys were loading ammo without a press or even a decent source of powder and primers. They made their primers and ground some surplus artillery powder until it was fine enought to do the job they needed it for. Mind you, I'm not suggesting you try that, but it does show what can be done if needed.
Buy a decent press, some good dies and come up with an accurate method of measuring powder. Above all: Be careful!