Need help with 223 and 9mm

[grubbylabs]

So last night was not a good night of loading for me, other than I think I finally got my 45 auto dialed in perfect.

my problems began the night before when I noticed that my 223 was not sizing right. Now Keep in mind, I have already processed at least a 1,000 rounds and they look perfect and function perfect. The problem I noticed is that the neck at the top seems to bulge, but really the very top has become smaller (thinner) while the rest of the neck is the same size. I will try to post a picture so you can see.

The second problem that has me perplexed is with a 9mm. I have a new mold that casts a 140g gc bullet. The problem here is that some cases are starting to buckle below the bullet. I have tried it with the die body backed all the way out so that it does not crimp. I have also tried it with the body set to do a slight role crimp. I even tried adjusting with the flare on the flaring die.

 

[grubbylabs]

Here are the pictures of the 223 brass.

 

[cheygriz]

Overcrimping on the .223.

check your case length, make sure they're trimmed properly, and get a Lee factory crimp die.

What sizing diameter and COAL are you using with the 9MM?

 

[grubbylabs]

I don't see how the sizing die can crimp.

So the Lee factory die has nothing to do with it yet. I have not even loaded powder into the hopper yet.

They are all trimmed 0.020 under per the X-die instructions.

 

[RN]

I'm confused..Are you using a lee die or the RCBS x dies for the .223?

 

[grubbylabs]

There is no Lee die in the press. I have not moved passed sizing with the X-die.

 

[Walkalong]

In the first pic it looks like the sizer is not adjusted down far enough and is only sizing part of the neck, which means the shoulder is forward as well.

The second pic doesn't look like that. Hard to say without a better look.

 

[GLOOB]

The second problem that has me perplexed is with a 9mm. I have a new mold that casts a 140g gc bullet. The problem here is that some cases are starting to buckle below the bullet. I have tried it with the die body backed all the way out so that it does not crimp. I have also tried it with the body set to do a slight role crimp. I even tried adjusting with the flare on the flaring die.

How big is your bullet? And whadya mean by "starting to buckle?" Do the rounds chamber and function? How big are your bullets?

It is common to see a bulge at the base of the bullet, esp in 9mm, and especially with cast bullets. If they shoot ok, then don't worry. It's just cosmetic. If it causes fouling and inaccuracy secondary to damaged bullets, then an oversize expander is probably the easiest fix.

 

[grubbylabs]

GLOOB,

It does not allow the round to chamber. I initially started out with them sized at .358, then thinking that might be the problem, I started sizing down to .356. with no change in the results. The barrel slugs @.3565. I get leading with .357 and 356.

 

[Blue68f100]

In the first pic it looks like the sizer is not adjusted down far enough and is only sizing part of the neck, which means the shoulder is forward as well.

The second pic doesn't look like that. Hard to say without a better look.

I'm going to agree with Walkalong. Looks like the sizing die is not going down far enough to fully size the neck. Being an X-die means the neck is supported by a mandrel. If this is set to low, brass to long it will buckle the brass.

Did you trim your brass 0.020" shorter like the instructions said?

 

[joem1945]

Buy a maximum length case gauge. Mine is from LE WILSON. When you set up your size/ decap die, try the case in the gauge. If the shoulder isn't pushed back far enough or too far you will see it. If the trim length is too long you will see that to. There are case gauges for many different calibers. While a bit expensive they can save you many hours of aggravation.

 

[gamestalker]

Why are you applying a roll crimp to a rimless / 9mm cartridge? That right there isn't going to help anything, and it kind of suggests that you might be over crimping in the first place.

As for the .223, I think Walkalong has possibly identified the issue there.

GS

 

[grubbylabs]

I am not looking to apply a role crimp. I am merely stating that I have adjusted the die from one extreme to another.

 

[Walkalong]

The second problem

I wonder if the die body is too tight for the bullet. My .458 Win Mag seater is too small for the Berrys 350 Gr plated bullet that measures .500. It just jams up and starts to damage the case. A .458 jacketed is just fine, but the .500 plated bullet is too tight in the die with that brass.

 

[grubbylabs]

Walkalong,

I was just loading some 135 grain cast bullets sized to .358 and I noticed the same bulge just below the bullet.
I have loaded these in the past without issue. It's also not happening on every round, but it seems to be random. So I wonder if it's my brass. It is fired I don't know how many times that I purchas

 

[243winxb]

9mm bulge is normal with .358" diameter bullets. For the 223 X die, read the instructions again.

 

[grubbylabs]

I got the X die figured out. It turns out it was not stoping on the shell plate Like I thought, but rather it was hanging up on the lock ring. I figured it out when I took all the dies out of the press. And I was not getting the resistance I was with the others.

 

[Boho]

9mm bulge

I load 9mm sized to 358 and had a similar problem. I would run a batch of 500 and about 25 wouldn't pass plunk test and were bulged on one side. It started when I started loading on a progressive press. It turned out that I wasn't holding the bullet straight enough when setting it on the case and seating. Was part of my learning curve on my xl650. 9mm is a tapered case and there isn't much room for error with 358 bullets. Try a longer COL too I think I ended up around 1.128. As long as it plunks its fine.

 

[243winxb]

9mm case taper

9mm is a tapered case

Some are, some may not be? Lip to prevent bullet setback OR

" I believe the internal step is to simulate the internal volume of the tapered wall thicknesses that most 9mm casings have. Of the differnt headstamps I've measured, all of them have walls that are much thicker at the bottom. Most of them have a constant thickness from the mouth to about 0.25 deep, then start to taper. Hornady starts the taper at the case mouth. "

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=772561 Toprudder post #4 "Ammoload" headstamps

 

[ku4hx]

On the .223, looks like to me the case is only being partially neck sized. In my original '70s era steel dies, the instructions said to have the die base actually press slightly on the holder to take out spring in the press. This was to properly full size the case and prevent just what you're having. That was when single stage presses were the norm. On my Dillon RL550B I use a feeler gauge and set the sizer die so in the fully ram raised position, the case just misses the shell holder plate ... .003" I think.

If your intention is to neck size only, you need to lower the sizing die in small increments to the point where the "bulge" just disappears.

 

[steve4102]

I got the X die figured out. It turns out it was not stoping on the shell plate Like I thought, but rather it was hanging up on the lock ring.

Stopping at the shell plate is only the beginning.

Most if not all FL dies recommend screwing the die Into the press 1/8 + turn past contact with the shell plate.

Before you load a bunch of ammo,

Size a few "Fired" cases.

Check to see if these sized cases chamber and extract with ease in "Your" rifle chamber.

If they chamber and extract you are GTG, if they are tight you will need to screw the FL die into the press a little at a time until they Do chamber and extract with ease.

 

[grubbylabs]

I am aware of that. The die is set up per RCBS's instructions.

The problem was in that the set screw on the lock ring seems to have had a bure making it difficult to turn past, and the powder measure was to far down. The Hornady shell plates in the progressive are such that you can't actually see the die contact the shell plate. I assumed the flex in the he'd was from the sizing die. I did not notice that the powder measure I had just put in (just to have a place where it would be out of the way on the bench) was what was actually causing the ram to feel as though it was topping out against the sizing die.