Need some new glass

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SamT1

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hey guys. I've been a gun collector and shooter for a long time. But now life with kids has taken all my hobby time. In general all my guns have poor quality glass, besides a gen 3 NV and a couple Leupold pistol scopes. I'm thinking about selling some stuff I don't use and buying some better glass for the few I do use.

What I want glass for:
A 308 rifle, I carry it in the truck. I try to shoot coyotes and pigs at all sorts of distances. Id like quite a bit of zoom, a bullet drop reticle, maybe a reticle that includes a ranging tool. Something to make an 800 yard shot reliable if I hold up my end of the deal. It has a Nikko sterling nighteater on it now, the scope is very poor for what they cost. I'd like to spend $400 or so if there's anything in that range. But I want this to be right so if that won't work I'm open. Gun has 18" barrel, but I'm going to have it cut down to 16 and threaded for my suppressor soon.

A 300blk ar, it has an old bushel sportsview on it, it's actually an awesome scope for what it cost back when I was a kid. I'm thinking about the Nikon p300 for this. My dad has a couple nikons and they seem to be the best you can buy In the $200 range. I'd like to be able to make a 3-400 yard shot with this. I was shooting a 5 gallon bucket at 300 yards with it the other day. But the hold over with no bdc was quite a challenge. I shot 20 rounds at the bucket and had 12 holes in it. The first 3-4 shots hit dirt in front. (You may not believe this, but the 125gr nos BT bullets I load were mushroomed very good when I dug them out of the sand, doubled in diameter I've had great luck getting pigs with them on my NV gun). I think the Nikon is what I want for this one, but I'm open to suggestions in the $300 and under range for this one.

I've always drug my feet in buying scopes, but rescently a freind bought a very nice 6.5 and put some trigicon glass on it. We were out plinking and I was shocked what it would do with cheap ammo and 2 shooters that are out of practice (been 2 years since I did any real shooting for accuracy). I really fell in love when we decided to screw my can on it. I could have shot every bullet he had.
 
I'd get a Weaver V16, a 4X to 16X scope for the .308 and a V7, 3Xto 7X for the 300 BLK; they've got very good adjustments and very good optics. Get zero's in 100-yard increments to your maximum range for both cartridges. That'll be better that using a ranging reticle because a given animal breed are not all the same size. Unless your BDC system is set for the ammo, altitude and temperature, actual bullet drop can easily be up to several feet different than what the BDC says for 800 yards.

A laser rangefinder is a must for the .308 at 800 yards. 308 Win bullets drop about an inch for every yard of range that far down range. Add that to the accuracy your load and rifle shoot and you'll see why a rangefinder's much better than a BDC system.
 
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Thanks. I guess I hadn't really thought about being able to move the elevation setting and put it back. I've never owned a scope that would still be on. That makes sense. Just site in at all the ranges and make note.
 
Here's a good thing to do with scopes, especially if the same one's used on several rifles.

1. Zero the scope at 100 yards on one rifle and ammo.

2. Count the clicks turning the windage adjustment knob clockwise to its stop. Write the number down for windage for the rifle and load used.

3. Turn the windage knob counter clockwise the click count you wrote down for it Now the scope's back to its 100 yard zero.

4. Repeat steps 2 and 3 for the elevation knob.

5. Loosen the lock screw on the knobs then adjust the without clicking them so they're zeroed on the index lines. Now they're set for a basic 100 yard zero and a starting point for longer range settings with that rifle and ammo.

You can repeat this for the same scope on another rifle.
 
800 yard shots and $400.00 scopes don't mix in my opinion. There are several scopes in the $200.00 range I believe are quite a bit better than a Nikon P series.

Minox ZV3
Burris Fullfield II
Vortex Diamondback
 
I wanted to recommend a Vortex Viper PST 2.5-10x32 FFP for your .308....but its about twice your price.

Have one on my PTR-91, though, and i think for its intended purpose (target shooting and steel plates out to about 800yds) it's about perfect. The reticle has markings in either Milliradians (MILS) or MOA, and the first focal plane means that windage and holdover adjustments are accurate regardless of zoom level, and if you know the size of your target, a little bit of trigonometry can get you a pretty accurate range estimation. Real nice glass, too, and an illuminated reticle. I can get pretty consistently on steel out to 800 with that and a free ballistic program i keep on my smartphone. The turrets are also large, clearly marked, and have a simple (crude even) but effective shim-based zero-stop if you prefer to dial in your adjustments.

I've gotten pretty spoiled with that and the 4-16x50 FFP on my 7mm. I dont make a lot of money, but i know how to save my pennies and get what works for me the first time.

sub_pst_f_25-10x32_ebr1_moa-t.jpg
 
Leupold hadn't failed on me, had failures with most other common brands. Put your eyes through some scopes in your price range, find what fits you.
If I was to go with one from the hip? Leupold, haven't had the best of luck with some other brands customer service.
Had good luck with Burris cs.
 
SamT1 said:
hey guys. I've been a gun collector and shooter for a long time. But now life with kids has taken all my hobby time. In general all my guns have poor quality glass, besides a gen 3 NV and a couple Leupold pistol scopes. I'm thinking about selling some stuff I don't use and buying some better glass for the few I do use.

What I want glass for:
A 308 rifle, I carry it in the truck. I try to shoot coyotes and pigs at all sorts of distances. Id like quite a bit of zoom, a bullet drop reticle, maybe a reticle that includes a ranging tool. Something to make an 800 yard shot reliable if I hold up my end of the deal. It has a Nikko sterling nighteater on it now, the scope is very poor for what they cost. I'd like to spend $400 or so if there's anything in that range. But I want this to be right so if that won't work I'm open. Gun has 18" barrel, but I'm going to have it cut down to 16 and threaded for my suppressor soon.

A 300blk ar, it has an old bushel sportsview on it, it's actually an awesome scope for what it cost back when I was a kid. I'm thinking about the Nikon p300 for this. My dad has a couple nikons and they seem to be the best you can buy In the $200 range. I'd like to be able to make a 3-400 yard shot with this. I was shooting a 5 gallon bucket at 300 yards with it the other day. But the hold over with no bdc was quite a challenge. I shot 20 rounds at the bucket and had 12 holes in it. The first 3-4 shots hit dirt in front. (You may not believe this, but the 125gr nos BT bullets I load were mushroomed very good when I dug them out of the sand, doubled in diameter I've had great luck getting pigs with them on my NV gun). I think the Nikon is what I want for this one, but I'm open to suggestions in the $300 and under range for this one.

I've always drug my feet in buying scopes, but rescently a freind bought a very nice 6.5 and put some trigicon glass on it. We were out plinking and I was shocked what it would do with cheap ammo and 2 shooters that are out of practice (been 2 years since I did any real shooting for accuracy). I really fell in love when we decided to screw my can on it. I could have shot every bullet he had.
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A scope with mil-dots can be used as a rangefinder, but you have to have a pretty accurate estimate of the size of the target in order to use it. Even at that they are not precise enough for varmints. For the military to hit human size targets they are accurate enough. A separate range finder I think is a must and that will add $200-$400 to your costs. You'll either need to own or borrow a chronograph to know your loads actual speeds in order to make a long distance scope with either dots or dials work.

Once you know the exact speeds of your loads and the bullets BC you can enter the data into a ballistics program and calculate drops. A Leupold VX-2 with custom dials is about the cheapest scope with dials. I have one, but my experience is still somewhat limited, still experimenting myself. Based on what I'm reading these work well enough, but if you spend a lot of time twisting the dials back and forth they supposedly don't hold up as well as much better scopes. Leupold makes a very good hunting scope, but for true long range precision work I think there are better options.

On a hunting rifle I prefer a scope with multiple aiming points. I've used these much more and trust them. They are a little less precise that twisting dials, but a lot faster to use and you don't have to worry about the dials being in the wrong position. I don't know of any scope with dots that will get you to 800. Going to 500 or 600 is possible with most of them.
 
Thanks for the comments guys. It's really looking like I need to up my price range. I have a 7mag I'm trying to sell that probably worth $700. I kinda like these vortex viper HS-T scopes. But still need to do some research on the reticles. I have a chronograph and can load whatever velocity needed, but I'm pretty partial to hornady sst 150gr. I do have a bunch of 165s though also. I don't own a range finder. Man good ones are expensive. Is that Burris rangefinder scope awesome? Reviews look great. I could sell more stuff if its truest awesome. I'd hate to spend that kind of money and then it die or suck.
I have a .270 with a 6-22x50 bsa on it. It's blurry over 12 power. But holds zero. I used to shoot bowling pins at 500 all day long with it. I definetly don't want to buy that level of scope again though. I guess I'd have pretty high expectations of a $400+ scope.
 
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Nothing wrong with the 150 SST. I shoot the 165 from my .308. Crunched the numbers once. As far as trajectory and energy, the 165s dont really start to come out ahead until right at the maximum effective range of my rifle. But they resist the wind a little better, and better sectional density means they're likely to get just a LITTLE better penetration on game, so they're my all purpose target/hunting/defensive load. But if the 150s shoot well for you, the advantages probably arent worth the hassle of retuning loads and relearning your dope.

Which HS-T are you looking at. I'm kind of a Vortex fanboy, i think you get a lot of scope for your money with them, and one hell of a warranty. Anything that says Viper will have some pretty good glass.

I won't pooh-pooh a Leupold either. They're good scopes, with another great warranty. But that gold stripe seems to be worth a bit more money for similar features.
 
cdb1 said:
800 yard shots and $400.00 scopes don't mix in my opinion.
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I got a $200 scope (worth $400 today) to mix pretty good at 800 and 1000 yards. 15 and 20 shot groups under 1/2 MOA.

I know, that doesn't matter. If you don't spend more money on your scope than the barrel and action and stock combined, no real good accuracy can be possible.
 
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SamT1 said:
I've got a line on one of these . . . . .
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Good choice. Be sure to crank the power all the way to highest when shooting for best results. All variables have a tiny bit of hysteresis (reticle makes a figure 8 pattern about point of aim) as power's changed. That's caused by the microscopic clearance between the zoom lens cells to the tube they slide in. Anything under 1/8 MOA is great. Some have over a half MOA. You need a collimator to see that, group shooting isn't repeatable enough.

So, I made my own collimator our of a 3 foot long 3" pipe, an old Weaver K3 scope tube (without eyepiece), Weaver bases and rings to hold it and the scope under test and a flashlight to illuminate the reticle. Maybe I'll post a picture of it with a scope under test attached.
 
Just food for thought....if you're shooting at something that moves, too much magnification can make if difficult to track your target. That's a main reason I've kept to the old "1X per hundred yards" rule of thumb for picking scopes. And why i like a FFP. I was talking to a salesman once about how second focal plane reticles are only genuinely accurate at max magnification on most scopes, and his response was, "Why would you ever take a shot at less than the highest power?" :-/

Target shooting can be a different matter...but then, depending on weather where you are, i find that even a comfortably warm day can make for some serious mirage. Worse at long range. Ive had to crank the mag down at times just to keep from chasing a dancing bullseye...
 
Most of the coyotes I shoot at are standing still and 300 yards out or more. If I miss the second shot is running. Pigs at long range will be standing still, or milling around slowly like they do. Anything up close is probably going to get the 300 blk, I usually carry 2 guns in the truck.

I bought the $300 scope it's not exactly what I want, but if I don't like it it would be a huge upgrade for any of my other rifles.
 
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Scope

All mounted up. Rifle has a date with the smith to get the barrel cut down and threaded. Going to 16" so the suppressor doesn't hang so darn far out. First time I've had a gun that the scope and rings costs more than the gun besides a NV!
 
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