New EMF 1851 Pepperbox

[junkman_01]

Kbob,

The screw was installed to cure a short arbor. The arbor is supposed to bottom out in the barrel assembly so the wedge is not the deciding factor in adjusting the barrel to cylinder gap. With proper fitting, accuracy and consistent dimensions are maintained. When fit this way (proper arbor length) the wedge becomes a thumb pressure install/removal.

 

[sltm1]

My question about a screw insert was once the screw is removed and a 51' front end re attached, wouldn't the hole in the end of the arbor either cut into the metal if it were bottomed out, or might it get mushroomed from the concussion?

 

[junkman_01]

I do not think either scenario would be of any consequence.

 

[Jaymo]

Junkman01, how did you center your arbor prior to drilling? I can't remember if the 51 Navy arbor is center drilled for turning between centers or not.
I have one I was considering doing that to, and now I'm convinced to do it.

 

[junkman_01]

If you mean 'how did I find the center of the arbor', I used one of the adjustable tri squares with the 45º attachment on it to locate the center, then started the hole with a center drill. The rest is the usual drilling and tapping.

 

[Lou G.]

Historical Precedents

The EMF "1851 Pepperbox" is based on an original found in Canada by Herb Houze, the Colt/Winchester authority (author of "Samuel Colt: Arms, Art, and Invention," etc.). He described it as a Colt M1860 Army frame, mated with a pepperbox barrel cluster of the Blunt & Syms type, about five inches long. At least one other pistol of this general pattern has turned up---a double-action percussion Bentley, with a revolver-style frame and typical pepperbox barrel cluster---originally made this way, and not assembed from parts. It was once owned by New Hampshire collector/dealer Dick Littlefield, and is shown on Plate 11 of William C. Dowell's "The Webley Story."

According to EMF, it's loaded like the common muzzle-loading pistol or Kentucky rifle: a powder charge, followed by one or two loose .375 balls, and a patched .375 ball on top to hold everything in place. (Presumably a charge of something like #6 shot would require the usual over-shot wad.)

 

[junkman_01]

Not good enough Lou. No picture=it didn't happen. Very vague reference you gave.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Now all we need is an R&D Conversion cylinder for it, and some .38 multiball loads. I suppose the end of the cylinder would need "rifling" to avoid converting it to a short shotgun.

LD

 

[arcticap]

Lou G.,
Thank you for the fascinating info.

http://www.amazon.com/Webley-Story-William-Chipchase-Dowell/dp/0939683040

The Webley Story [Hardcover]
William Chipchase Dowell (Author)
5.0 out of 5 stars
See all reviews (1 customer review) |

Available from these sellers.

1 new from $189.00 3 used from $110.00

 

[Lou G.]

Bentley Photo

Here's a pic of the Bentley revolver-style pepperbox, from W. C. Dowell's book "The Webley Story." Evidently made about 1861, as it embodies features of an English patent issued in 1860.

(You may have to scroll all the way down to see it.)

 

[bibox]

It looks like it was built off an Adams frame.

 

[junkman_01]

LouG.

Now THAT's what I call a 'reference'. I see the 'family resemblance' to the EMF thing now. Good research work. Here it is again as a jpg photo...

 

[Lou G.]

More on Bentleys

It's interesting to speculate on whether a few of these Bentley revolver-like pepperboxes got to the States. Norm Flayderman's website shows a conventional Bentley .36-caliber percussion revolver, its frame contours nearly identical to the pepperbox, with the barrel engraved: "Made Expressly For D. Kernaghan & Co. New Orleans."

As they say in the Southwest, "Quien sabe?"

 

[GCBurner]

In Roughing It, Mark Twain's memoirs of his travels on the Western frontier, he talks about shooting the Allen pepperbox he carried for self defense. His take was that "the Allen is so confounded comprehensive", that the only safe place to stand when it was being fired was directly behind the shooter, since the balls could wind up flying off in any random direction.
That may be the reason modern shooting reproductions haven't taken off; shooting one off at the range might not make you too popular with the folks shooting on either side of you.

 

[junkman_01]

Of course you have to take Mark Twains verbiage with a grain of salt.

 

[Lou G.]

Pepperboxes

Junkman is quite right. I've done a fair amount of shooting with original pepperboxes, and I can tell you that if they're of the revolving-barrel (rather than the fixed-barrel) type, they can do pretty well at ranges out to 15 yards (beyond which they weren't tested). The one that proved most impressive was an original Blunt & Syms .36-caliber "Dragoon". Loaded with snugly-patched balls and a 20-grain powder charge, this pistol could repeatedly put three rapid shots into a 6" circle at 15 yards, and I wasn't the only shooter who could do this, either. Of course the Blunt & Syms has the advantage of a smooth double-action pull and a hammer which strikes the bottom barrel; we probably couldn't have done as well with a bar-hammer Allen-style pistol.

Years ago, R. O. "Slim" Ackerman wrote a piece for (I think) "Shooting Times" in which he tested a percussion pepperbox (along with a percussion derringer) and got roughly similar results to the above. However, don't take my word for it---if you can find a shootable pepperbox, try this for yourself. If nothing else, you'll have fun.

 

[Busyhands94]

if those Italians are going to create an 1851 pepperbox, could they make me an 1858 Remington with a 5 1/2 inch barrel, single and double action please? for a modest price? that would be sweet! i don't care if that's not historically correct, i like it anyway!

~Levi

 

[Jaymo]

A DA 58 Rem would be sweet.
My dad has an original Allen and Thurber pepperbox in nice condition. I'd love to shoot it, but I think he'd disown me if I did so.

 

[Lou G.]

Double-Action Remington

It's not impossible that Pietta (or Uberti) would make a copy of the Remington double-action "New Model Belt Revolver," but (to be an accurate copy) it would be in .36 caliber, with a 6-1/2" barrel. Close enough?

 

[Jaymo]

Nah, they need to go full Pietta and make it in .44 with either a brass frame, a color casehardened frame, target sights, or some combination.
I'm not as interested in historical accuracy, with this gun, as I am as having a double action, Remington design .44 cap/ball revolver.
While we're at it, let's get them to make a 4 shot, revolving barrel pepperbox version of the LeMat. That would be a hoot.