New Mossberg 500 issues, please advise – PICS

[Arky_Expat]

Hi! Looong time lurker, 1st time poster. I’m really appreciative of all the knowledge you guys offer; I want to mine you for info on a few peculiarities I am experiencing. A cursory search did not produce results for my particular problems.

Purchased a new Mossberg 500 12 ga. field model this weekend. I have owned one before (in 20 ga.) and did not notice these issues.

Issue #1 – When inserting a new shell into the magazine, it is possible for it to be retained by the elevator instead of the shell stop. Of course this causes the shell to fall to the ground when the action is cycled. This is only a problem when manually loading; when the action is cycled again, the next round will be retained by the shell stop. Is this typical? I suppose I should be more conscientious about positively pushing the shell fully in the magazine (?).

Issue #2 – Feeding jam, shell wedged between bolt and elevator
On the second pump of the action, I experienced a jam. The 2 ¾” shell wedged itself between the bolt and the elevator. The rim on the crimp end of the shell was caught on the ‘tongue’ of the elevator. I reproduced the jam in the picture. The shell had to be removed carefully by hand. I have not been able to reproduce this when working the action; freak incident or evidence of some issue? The muzzle was pointed at a high angle with respect to the ground, perhaps that had something to do with it? I would like this gun to double for HD, so the jam has me very concerned.

Any wisdom you guys can offer would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.
Arky

 

[Arky_Expat]

Image posting fail. Try again:

Issue #1 - http://flic.kr/p/bao6rT

issue #2 - http://flic.kr/p/bao6vt

 

[Fred Fuller]

#1 - Yes, you have to push the shell past the shell latches for it to catch on them and remain in place in the magazine. This should be made a habit ASAP, and that's best done by loading and shooting, loading and shooting, loading and shooting etc.

#2 - How fast were you running the action, and did you run the bolt fully to the rear before you started closing the bolt? While pump shotguns are considered very reliable, they do require their shooters to meet certain parameters in use - running the action briskly is one, and running the bolt ALL THE WAY BACK before starting forward is another. I tell new pumpgun shooters to mentally do a ONE count on opening the bolt, making sure the bolt is mechanically stopped at the extreme rearward position before the TWO count, which concludes with the bolt fully closed.

hth,

lpl

 

[Arky_Expat]

Thanks for the response, Lee.

Perhaps the action was not cycled briskly enough, but I am certain it was pulled all the way back before it was brought forward. In order for the shell to become stuck in the way shown in the first place, the bolt must be all the way back. There is not enough room for it to nosedive otherwise.

 

[Miked7762]

What load is that in picture #2? Out of curiosity I tried to manually recreate it myself. I can't physically get any of my shells to fit in such a way in either of my 500s.

 

[Arky_Expat]

Thanks for the extra effort, Miked! It is a Federal game load, 2 3/4". I am surprised, I thought the 'tongue' on the elevator would be just long enough that the shell couldn't work itself into that position.

 

[Ranger30-06]

I had a jam like that in #2 before. It only happens if you short stroke the action. As long as you make it habit to feel the slide stop before returning the pump forward, you wont have that problem again.

Jam #1 is like the others said, make sure the shell is pushed all the way in.

 

[Miked7762]

You're right, it shouldn't fit under there, no matter what angle the shotgun is held at. I looked again at the full size of picture #1 and the elevator tongue looks a little too flat to be normal. Is the end flush against the bottom of the bolt, or does it rise up and exit the channel just a bit?

Would you mind measuring the overall length of a few of those shells and posting here? the shortest I have is a Winchester Super X at 2.302" and it simply won't go underneath the elevator tongue. It would be kind of moot if the elevator is bent, though.

 

[Arky_Expat]

Ranger, I'd be all too happy to conclude it was my fault. Glad to know someone else has seen it.

Miked, I will measure the shell later today, but I do have a side view that shows the jam and the elevator tongue from the side if that is helpful.

http://flic.kr/p/banSK8

 

[Arky_Expat]

Miked, I measured 5 shells with a median length of 2.291 in. Good question! Does that seem enough of a difference?

 

[BADUNAME37]

Excuse me, I do not mean to hijack this, but I couldn't help but notice what appears to be mashed receiver steel around the right side lower pin (perfectly-visible in the third photo showing the open side port and angled shell on a 45 degree angle.

Is that what I think it is and, if so, was that the way the gun came to you BRAND-NEW?
Welcome to the site!

 

[Arky_Expat]

Friendly, happen to report that that is just an aberrant image. Must have been some oil/fingerprint playing tricks on the camera. I see what you are talking about though.

 

[BADUNAME37]

OK, thanks, I will sleep better knowing that Mossberg didn't send a brand-new gun looking like what the picture shows at that pin!

 

[OldMac]

I had the catching problem with 2" mini buck shells unless I held the gun on it's side with the ejection port up. Those shells are now reserved for single shots or the 870 which has a long solid lifter rather than the three toed plate in the mossberg.

 

[Arky_Expat]

Butlerana, it is a Federal game load, 2 3/4". It seems to be juuust short enough that it can get itself in there on occasion. I did not realize shotguns could be so ammo sensitive. I supposed I will need to consider looking for longer shells?

I wonder if I should get a replacement elevator. Alternatively, is there any possibility the bolt is coming back too far and allowing extra space for the shell to wedge itself or is that unlikely?

 

[Ranger30-06]

I don't think it's necessarily a flaw, but that it's more so the .000000001% unlucky chance that this particular malfunction should happen with this type of load. Short stroking is really just a bad habit that needs to be knocked out, and all will be well!


I honestly wouldn't worry about it, and just pay attention to how you use the gun. If it keeps happening and you aren't short stroking the action, then it might be time to check some parts.

 

[Arky_Expat]

First, thank you all for the input. I have a little update:

I’ve tried other loadings and manually manipulated them in the chamber. I cannot replicate the ‘wedging’ between the bolt and the elevator tongue; most shells are just long enough to keep this from happening. The problematic game loads are about 0.050” shorter.

While I understand the short stroking suggestion (and would not be embarrassed if this were indeed the cause) I don’t think that is what happened. In order for those game loads to achieve the position shown, the bolt must be all the way back in the first place to allow enough room.

My conclusion is that this problematic load is just on the short side. I replicated the jam - if the gun is held in such a way (almost vertical) that the incoming shell is pushed into the chamber and rattles around in just the right way, it can become stuck and lock the action. I don’t expect that this would be a likely scenario in normal operation; pumps are orientation-sensitive anyway.

 

[Miked7762]

The elevator tongue looks fine in the third photo. It must just be the perspective in the first one, even knowing the tongue is OK it still looks funny in the photo. Strange.