New Reloader Here Need Some Pointers and Help

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gunghorjc

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My dad purchased a 50th Anniversary Lee Single Stage Press. It came with a booklet from Hodgdons that listed a bunch of different calibers and load data for them. Since we were going to reload for 9mm Luger he went to the load data for the only one listed for 115 GR. was the SPR GDHP. Mistakenly, we thought it was for 115 GR. FMJ.

It listed the Hodgdon powder Titegroup so when we went to the local gun show, he picked that up. He also picked up 115 GR. FMJ and some 9mm Luger casings and small pistol primers.

We came back home and started following the directions for reloading. We ended up reloading all 100 FMJs using the load data for the 115 GR. SPR GDHP. The rounds all fell good when measuring with a digital micrometer and so we took them out and shot 500 through his Hi Point and 50 through my Taurus PT 24/7. All the rounds fired flawlessly, however I did note that my slide was not locking back on my last shot fired.

We wanted to reload some more so my dad went to the local gun shop and picked up a box of Sierra 115 GR JHP, for some reason thinking that it was FMJ.

He didn't notice till he got home and started loading them up. We didn't fire those rounds off as they fell far short of the C.O.A.L. So I decided to get onto Hodgdons website and start looking at 9mm load data, and they had a lot more listed there than in the booklet that came with the Lee press. So I printed it off and found that the powder we should have picked up according this data is called WSF.

Comparing the load data, I noticed that the WSF for 115 GR. FMJ calls for 4.9 GR. for the charge and the data we followed mistakenly for the 115 GR. SPR GDHP called for 4.8 GR. for the charge.

I know it sounds like we made quite a few mistakes, and we've both agreed that we need to be more careful and observant when buying the reloading supplies.

Now, what I'm trying to figure out is if we can substitute the Titegroup for the WSF powder, or if it's crucial to use the exact powder mentioned?

PS- Sorry for the long post, I just want to make sure I explained everything carefully so that others would understand best and offer up what they know and any assistance. Thanks.
 
or if it's crucial to use the exact powder mentioned?
Click to expand...
It is extremely critical that you use the exact powder shown in the load data.

There are very few powders you can substitute directly using the same load data.

Two that you can use interchangably are:
Hodgdon HP-38 & WW-231 are the exact same powder.
Hodgdon H-110 and WW-296 are the exact same powder.

Other then those two, don't substitute any powder for another shown in your data, although charge weights my overlap or even be the same starting load.

The fact remains however that they wouldn't make over 50 different pistol powders if one or two could do everything.

BTW: Titegroup is one of the fastest burning powders made, and is #5 on the burn rate chart.
WSF is #30!

SO, they are not even close to being interchangable.

rc
 
Then we'll definitely put a stop to any more reloading until we get the right powders.

Thanks for the advice and help rcmodel.

Like I said, we both realized we were too careless in purchasing the correct supplies. Definitely no more of that.
 
You can use Titegroup with a 115 bullet in 9mm, just not with the WSF data. There should be a bunch of data for 9mm with Titegroup on the Hodgdon site.
 
I've printed the chart off. I went into their reloading data center found at

http://data.hodgdon.com/main_menu.asp

I selected cartridge loads. Then chose pistol for load type and 9mm Luger for cartridge.

It gives me a bunch of different load data ranging from 90 GR. SPR GDHP all the way up to 147 GR. Lead CFP. The only two that it lists in there for 115 GR. FMJ or 115 GR. JHP is the Winchester WSF.

Am I looking in the wrong spot?

Also here's another question. My dad is reloading for his .308 so he bought 30 CAL bullets, 150 GR. GR BTSP Interlock. The person at the gun shop sold him the powder H4895 to reload for that. On that bottle it says for .308 Win the bullet is 150 GR. Nos. BT. Will that powder not work then?
 
Try this at the Hodgdon Reloading Data Center page:

- Select "Load Type" = Pistol
- Select "Cartridge" = 9mm Luger
- Click "Get Data"
- Select "Bullet Weight" = 115
- Click "Get Data"

115 GR. FMJ Winchester WSF Bullet Diameter - .355" OAL - 1.169" Start Charge - 4.9 Velocity (fps) - 1060 Chamber Pressure - 24,200 PSI Max Charge - 5.7 Velocity (fps) - 1195 Chamber Pressure - 31,900 PSI

115 GR. JHP Winchester WSF .355" 1.169" 5.2 1095 28,700 PSI 5.7 1165 32,100 PSI

115 GR. LRN Hodgdon Longshot .356" 1.100" 5.0 1032 20,200 CUP 6.0 1166 27,300 CUP

115 GR. LRN IMR 800-X .356" 1.100" 4.5 1004 24,000 PSI 5.3 1128 28,200 PSI

115 GR. LRN IMR SR 4756 .356" 1.100" 4.5 1027 25,000 PSI 5.2 1145 31,600 PSI

115 GR. LRN Hodgdon HS-6 .356" 1.100" 6.4 1117 27,900 CUP 6.9 1170 32,200 CUP

115 GR. LRN Winchester AutoComp .356" 1.100" 4.4 1002 24,800 PSI 5.1 1145 31,500 PSI

115 GR. LRN Hodgdon Universal .356" 1.100" 4.0 1034 24,400 CUP 4.5 1124 31,300 CUP

115 GR. LRN Winchester 231 .356" 1.100" 4.3 1079 28,400 CUP 4.8 1135 32,000 CUP

115 GR. LRN Hodgdon HP-38 .356" 1.100" 4.3 1079 28,400 CUP 4.8 1135 32,000 CUP

115 GR. LRN IMR PB .356" 1.100" 3.3 974 26,900 PSI 3.7 1061 32,500 PSI

115 GR. LRN Hodgdon Titegroup .356" 1.100" 3.9 1075 25,800 CUP 4.3 1151 30,500 CUP

115 GR. LRN IMR 700-X .356" 1.100" 3.3 986 25,200 PSI 3.7 1082 31,900 PSI

115 GR. LRN Hodgdon Clays .356" 1.100" 3.0 954 25,300 CUP 3.4 1039 31,000 CUP

115 GR. SPR GDHP IMR 700-X .355" 1.125" 3.9 991 26,000 PSI 4.2 1091 31,900 PSI

115 GR. SPR GDHP Hodgdon Longshot .355" 1.125" 5.0 1127 29,000 PSI 6.0 1203 32,300 PSI

115 GR. SPR GDHP Hodgdon HS-6 .355" 1.125" 6.7 1171 26,700 CUP 7.0 1234 29,400 CUP

115 GR. SPR GDHP Winchester AutoComp .355" 1.125" 5.1 1078 28,200 PSI 5.6 1161 32,500 PSI

115 GR. SPR GDHP Hodgdon Universal .355" 1.125" 4.5 1029 27,400 CUP 5.0 1149 31,200 CUP

115 GR. SPR GDHP Winchester 231 .355" 1.125" 4.7 1075 25,300 CUP 5.1 1167 28,100 CUP

115 GR. SPR GDHP Hodgdon HP-38 .355" 1.125" 4.7 1075 25,300 CUP 5.1 1167 28,100 CUP

115 GR. SPR GDHP IMR SR 7625 .355" 1.125" 4.5 1031 28,000 PSI 4.9 1113 32,300 PSI

115 GR. SPR GDHP IMR PB .355" 1.125" 3.6 957 28,300 PSI 4.0 1038 32,000 PSI

115 GR. SPR GDHP Hodgdon Titegroup .355" 1.125" 4.5 1135 29,500 CUP 4.8 1158 30,500 CUP

115 GR. SPR GDHP Hodgdon Clays .355" 1.125" 3.7 1066 30,900 CUP 3.9 1095 32,600 CUP
Click to expand...
 
Thanks for pointing that out. I didn't see those other options. It still only has the Winchester WSF for 115 GR. FMJ and 115 GR. JHP.

We're heading out to the gun range right now and going to do some plinking with are .22's and then going to a different gun shop. We're hoping that they'll have an actual reloading manual which I hope will have the information in it.
 
If you are new to reloading, W231/HP38 is a good powder to start out with as it has broader start charge - max charge range and is more tolerant of producing accurate loads even at lower load data. It meters well and good for loading multiple calibers (.38/.357/9mm/40S&W/45ACP) with plenty of available load data. It is also good for producing milder recoiling target/range loads.


115 GR. was the SPR GDHP. Mistakenly, we thought it was for 115 GR. FMJ.
Click to expand...
SPR GDHP is abbreviation for Speer Gold Dot Hollow Point bullet. It will have different nose profile than FMJ round nose bullet.

Most "Round Nose" profile bullets in 115/124/125 gr weight can be loaded to the typical 1.125"-1.127" OAL in most pistols (with some exceptions).

Some "Hollow Point" profile bullets (depending on the shape) will require shorter or longer OAL to reliably feed/chamber from the magazine.

I generally make a dummy round (no powder/primer) and start at the max OAL (the longest OAL that will drop in freely into the chamber with the barrel out of the pistol without hitting the rifling) and keep decreasing the OAL until I can reliably feed/chamber the dummy round from the magazine and manually releasing the slide.
 
Mr RJC -
Welcome to THR and welcome to reloading !

As Mr Model has said, absolutely no subs allowed. We're not baking oatmeal cookies here where you can halve the sugar and double the pecans just because it sounds good. For the most part, you have to follow the loads exactly as they are printed in your manuals.

There are some "rules of thumb" which you will learn as you go along, but for now you need to follow the recipes as closely as humanly possible. That means measuring your exact powder to the nearest 1/10th of a grain and measuring the physical sizes of your ammo to within .001 on diameter and .006 on length.

If you have questions, then please ask.

;)
 
Also here's another question. My dad is reloading for his .308 so he bought 30 CAL bullets, 150 GR. GR BTSP Interlock. The person at the gun shop sold him the powder H4895 to reload for that. On that bottle it says for .308 Win the bullet is 150 GR. Nos. BT. Will that powder not work then?
Click to expand...
I am new to rifling reloading too. I was planning to order 150/155 gr bullet at first, but found a good brass/bullet combo deal for the 168 gr bullet.

I ordered H4895, Varget and RL15 powders to start out. H4895 is faster burning rifle powder than Varget/RL15 and should work for the same weight bullet you bought.

There's a ton of reloading information threads on THR and believe me, if you got a question, you'll get answers. If you get a wrong answer, it will be corrected by many who will do the "High Road" thing to keep you on the safe/correct reloading path. :D

Welcome aboard!
 
No you are looking in the right spot.

But lets forget about WSF powder for awhile.
It is not what you want to use for the practice loads you are wanting to load.

If you started out with a full can of Titegroup, and loaded 600 rounds, you should still have enough left for 800 more loads.
Lets concentrate on that.
Just use the Titegroup loads listed under the 115 grain Speer GD bullet.
Start is 4.5, and MAX is 4.8.
You cannot get in trouble with 4.5, and if it won't lock the slide open, go to 4.6 then 4.7 and try that.

As for the H-4895 powder in the .308?
Just use the loads shown for the 150 Nosler BT with the Hornady 150 BT's you bought.
Pretty much the same differance.

Start with the start load shown (43.0 grains), and work up, looking for any signs of high pressure.

BTW: A good reloading manual would answer most of these questions.
Do you have one?

rc
 
Thanks everyone. We knew there was going to be a steep learning curve when we got into it. My dad and I went to 2 different gun shops today, and a used book store where we had seen older versions of the Hornady reloading manual, but they had sold it. The 2 gun shops didn't have any reloading books, very few powders, and absolutely nothing as far as other supplies.

One place mentioned that with the $25 hazmat fees, it's not worth their time and effort to really stock those but the most demanded powders.

And thanks rcmodel, again for your advice. We aren't planning on going to much further with the reloading until we get a good manual. My dad said he actually seen a Lee reloading manual for sale at the gun show we bought most of these supplies at but was going to look around for a better price one and forgot to go back.

P.S. - I understand about the grains and not going below the minimum nor above the maximum. If I load a 115 GR. JHP according to the 115 GR. SPR GDHP load data for Titegroup should the overall length be that of the 115 GR. JHP (1.169") or the 115 GR. SPR GDHP (1.125")?
 
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New Reloader Here Need Some Pointers

Gosh, you must be living right. I just found a whole pile of pointers that I'm happy to share with a new reloader.....

pointers.png


Hope this helps! :evil:
 
WSF is a very good powder for 9MM. It uses more powder for the velocity, but can push bullets faster than Titegroup and other fast powders. It will also have a bit smoother recoil.

I load 9MM with anything from 700X & N320 to WSF & AA #5 in burn speed. All depends on what I am looking for. Light target or max/near max loads.

When you burn up that Titegroup, break out the WSF and give it a try.

Love those pointers rfwobbly. I am going to bookmark them. :D
 
My dad said he actually seen a Lee reloading manual for sale at the gun show we bought most of these supplies at but was going to look around for a better price
Click to expand...
The Lee manual is fine, if somewhat self-promoting Lee products.
But the Lyman #49 manual is better.
Why not get both?
You really can't have too many reloading manuals.

Both these together cost about the same as one box of good factory ammo.

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=217655
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=484416

rc
 
+1 on manuals. Reading a few cover to cover (more than once) will answer most of your reloading questions and keep you from overlooking steps. Check your local library too. Believe it or not, our local library has almost all of new/old reloading manuals in the reference section. If they don't have them, they can cross-reference nearby libraries to see who has them.

Here's another pointer. When I first started, I made a check list for reloading (like a flight check for pilots) and posted it right in front of the press so I would not skip any steps. You can copy all the steps right from the manuals.

When you reload, eliminate all distractions and give yourself plenty of time so you can concentrate on the reloading steps/processes without rushing. I tell you, it sure is a fun hobby.
 
+1, bds

bds said:
Here's another pointer. When I first started, I made a check list for reloading (like a flight check for pilots) and posted it right in front of the press so I would not skip any steps. You can copy all the steps right from the manuals.
Click to expand...
I did the same thing with my progressive presses. I wrote down all the steps. I boiled the steps down to one sentence apiece, then one phrase each.

Ultimately, it became one syllable per step, and I could chant it like a mantra.

Very zen-like, my reloading.

Lost Sheep
 
Thanks everyone. We picked up the Sierra 5th edition reloading manual today from the gun shop. Definitely will look into getting some others too. Been reading it like crazy all day!

For my 9mm Luger 115 GR JHP it's got load data for the powder Titegroup. 3.7 minimum charge and 4.5 maximum charge. I loaded up 10 bullets as its getting late and I'm getting tired. I started with the lightest charge of 3.7. The C.O.A.L. was listed as 1.050" and with the micrometer my 10 rounds measured out as;

1.050" - 1st
1.049" - 2nd
1.049" - 3rd
1.047" - 4th
1.049" - 5th
1.050" - 6th
1.050" - 7th
1.049" - 9th
1.049" - 10th

Going to take them out tomorrow and fire them off, see how they do. Thanks again everyone for the help and patience.
 
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