New shotgun - Saiga 12K (I'm addicted!)

[jlbraun]

Went to Ye Olde Gun Store yesterday with the goal of buying a pump shotgun for defense.

Looked at a Mossberg 500 and a few Remington 870 variants. All good guns. Was ready to lay money on the counter... wait, what's that?

"Saiga 12 ga. Just got more in. 6 shots, can handle 3 inch shells, detachable magazine. Short barrel with a decent choke."

The gun points well for me and I like the AK action, and I walk around in circles for awhile, debating. "Give me the Saiga."

$399 plus tax, one NICS check, and I'm out the door. 150 rounds of 2 3/4" #7.5 shot and we're off to the range to shoot skeet.

There are some other people there, and we take up position on the far left. I've shot skeet before, but with a pump action, not a semi. The gun is quite pointable, and starting from low ready and getting on target isn't a problem. The recoil is quite low(even with slugs), thanks to the gas piston. Most of the weight is forward.

pull-BLAM. pull-BLAMBLAM. 1-2 clays at a time is fun! I'm so absorbed that I don't see the guys with the duck guns coming closer. "Whatcha got there?" one says.

"Russian combat shotgun. Here, give it a try." I refill the magazine and snap it in. After 4 shots, the guy has a big smile on his face. "I have got to get one of these!" he says.

Too bad the mags are so expensive. $80 for an 8 shot magazine. Inserting the mag takes practice, but is much faster than loading one at a time.

I load it up with 6 rounds of 00 buck and try to dump the mag as fast as I can into a chest-sized box at 7 yards. BLAMBLAMBLAMBLAMBLAMBLAM!. The action cycles really fast, and the trigger reset is short. All shots hit the box, and the muzzle rise was minimal.

In about 200 rounds, I did have one stovepipe, which I found interesting. It was lower-power birdshot, so that might explain it.

Here are some pictures. This gun rocks!

Edit - it's a Saiga 12, not a 12K.

 

[AJAX22]

I've often wondered if the sagia would be adaptable to accept a folding stock off of an AMD65.

the rear trunion would have to be swaped out, but it would be a very interesting SBS or AOW if it could be done.

 

[ready4shtf]

You got a mega good deal. Those are hard to find

 

[jlbraun]

I think that this gun is a refitted SBS - help?

There is a choke tube welded onto the threads at the end of the barrel. Sticking a dowel into the barrel and measuring from bolt face to end of barrel gives exactly 18 1/4 inches. Without the choke welded on there it would be about 17".

So my question is, is the choke length considered in barrel length? Is this a common thing with Saigas? This thing is still legal, right?

 

[The-Fly]

I know with AR's if you have a permenantly attached flash suppressor, it counts as part of your barrel length, which is why the 14.5" barrels can be purchased with out the tax stamp (assuming you get the FS pinned or welded on of course).

I think your ok on barrel length.

 

[ready4shtf]

No, its legal. Thats the only way they could be imported. The factory screwed up and cut the barrels 17". BATF made them weld extentions on them before they could enter the states. That means you have one of the new batches of imports. (less than 1 yr old) The older ones didnt have the tubes attached.

 

[jlbraun]

OK, that makes me feel better. Thanks all.

 

[Correia]

I was behind the scenes of the 17.2 inch barrel fiasco.

The first 500 Saigas to come into the country under the new importer had 17.2 inch barrels under the detachable choke. I'm a Saiga distributor. We received our first 50, and immediatly shipped them out before SHOT show.

We get a call at SHOT from our gunsmith (Tony Rumore of Tromix, who does our pistol grip conversions and SBSes) telling us about the barrel length. Panic/hillarity ensues.

The next morning, PvtPyle and I (FBMG), and Larry and Debbie from Russian American had a meeting with the BATF Tech Branch folks at SHOT. We worked everything out, and rather than destroy the guns, they let us weld the chokes on. We even posted live from SHOT on Saiga12.com from the BATF's booth.

The problem arose with the Russians. If you measured from the muzzle with a tape to the end of the barrel, the were 18". The ATF measures by dropping a dowel down the barrel until it hits the bolt face. The Saiga bolt travels .8 of an inch up the barrel extension. Hence the problem. The Russians did not know US law, and misunderstood the directions they were given. Customs did not catch this on the way in, and neither did RAAC, or any of the distributors until Tony started chopping these things down for us.

The guns coming in now have the detachable chokes.

BTW, if your dealer wants anymore Saigas, have him give me a call.

 

[jlbraun]

Thanks for the response Correia.

I was wondering if there are any manufacturers of aftermarket 8-10 round magazines that you are aware of.

Also, I was wondering about what aftermarket stocks are available that are compatible with the Saiga.

Thanks!

 

[Correia]

AGP Arms is taking preorders on their 10 rounders right now over at Saiga12.com. I've got 250 on order. I don't know when they will be shipping though.

If you leave the trigger group alone, there really aren't any stock options, but if you use AK trigger parts, you can use any AK stock, or even an adaptor for AR stocks. See my webpage under Firearms, Rifles & Shotguns, Tromix Saigas.