new to 38 SPL/357 Mag

[kludge]

If I should split this up into two topics please let me know.

I am now set up to load for 38/357. There are two guns, a S&W Airweight .38 SPL 1-7/8" and a "nearly new" Ruger Service Six .357 4". I've been reading through lots of old posts, but I have a few questions...

... and I only want to buy one powder at this time.

1) For the .38 Airweight I want to use what I have on hand: WSP primers and Bullseye would seem to do the trick, start at 4.0gr/3.2gr and work up to 4.4gr/3.5gr with 125gr/158gr jacketed bullets, agree/disagree? Or is Bullseye too fast for a snub? Would Unique or Universal do better? (I really want to use up the Bullseye that a will no longer use for .40S&W.)

2) For me, in the 4" Ruger .357Mag, I'm debating between Unique, Power Pistol, and 2400. I would be using 125gr and 158gr XTP's and WSP primers. Use would be defense/whitetail hunting sidearm. I don't have to have "full house" ammo.

a) should I get magnum primers? All the data from powder manufacturers show magnum primers, but here and elsewhere, some use WSP or CCI 500.
b) by using Unique or Power Pistol would I be giving up too much performance with 125gr bullets?
c) I do care about low flash, would Unique be the best of the three?
d) what should I expect in approx. fps from a 4" barrel.

3) For my wife I'll probably be loading .38 or .38+P loads with 125gr jacketed bullets into .357 brass for starters.

I will NOT be using .38 brass - I don't want to risk ANY confusion with the loads for the S&W Airweight.

a) Here I'm leaning toward Unique or Power pistol and starting 0.5gr higher than the listed load for .38 and .38+P staring loads. Is this OK? (again these loads will be used in the Ruger). I'm leaning away from Bullseye - worried about it not filling the cases.

b) what about a light charge of 2400? or are light charges of 2400 not a good idea?

Thanks!

 

[revolverman357]

I like the Bullseye or Unique for .38special. very accurate.
2400 is best suited for magnum loads.

In .357 I use 2400 14-14.5gr and use Federal small pistol primers (not magnum) exclusively. 158gr SWC Hard Cast bullet.
Often times, I will use Unique for the .357 for a medium load.

 

[Steve C]

In the .38 spl Unique will give you some of the best velocities for any bullet weight. As an old powder there's data using it for every bullet made for the .38 spl and .357 mag. Out of a 2" barrel velocities are pretty low and in the .38 spl you'll find lead bullets usually work best, esp in short barrels. I use a 6.0gr load of Unique behind a 125 gr JHP in the .38 spl and it shoots well with velocites over 1,000 fps from 4" barrels. Mostly I load 5.0grs of Unique or 4.7 grs of W231 behind a Speer swaged lead 158gr lead bullet of various design. This load duplicates factory +P velocities from my 4" and 2" pistols.

You can't drive the heavy 158gr jacketed bullet very fast out of a .38 spl. For this reason Speer doesn't list a .38 spl load with their 158gr and heavier jacketed bullets in the current #13 load manual.

Power pistol works great in the 9mm but I'm unimpressed with it in the .38 spl.

To get full magnum loads in the .357 you'll have to go to a slower powder like 2400, h110, aa#9 etc. With these powders you can duplicate factory loads and send a 158gr bullet out the end of your 4" Ruger at over 1,200 fps and not be pushing the max charge weight. Slow powder get real dirty at low pressure .38 spl loadings and some like H110 are simply not suitable in the .38 spl. You can assemble some very good .357 loads using Unique.

 

[kludge]

Thanks, I think I'm going to get some Unique and 2400. So much for getting only one powder!

 

[jondar]

Excellent choices!

 

[Bottom Gun]

I also try to limit my powder variety to as few as possible.
I use Unique for all my .357 and .38 loads as well as .44 mag and .45ACP. It's a very versatile powder.

My shooting partner has had good luck with Win 231 in his .38 spl.

 

[GooseGestapo]

Using Unique for both is the way to go if choosing only one powder.

If getting 2 powders, you can't go wrong with the Unique and 2400.

I've used just about everything appropriate for both, and some not so appropriate, and those two are just about "it" for the respective cartridges.

Only other choices for .38spl are Bullseye (my choice), and Win231/HP-38 (essentially the same powder as they are both made at same plant with large cannisters of HP-38 bearing Win231 lot#'s)

For target 148gr wadcutters, use 3.5-3.8gr Unique in .38spl.
For general use w/ 158gr SWC, use 4.2gr Unique. This is excellent in the .357 handguns as well.
For +P 158gr SWC, use 5.2gr Unique in the .38spl.(I don't suggest this for the Airweight though, drop back to 4.8gr max with it. You'll see why when you touch off 4.8gr and 158gr SWC !!!!!)

With the .357mag. Use 6.0gr Unique for a splendid all-around load, it will give match grade accuracy with a match grade bullet/firearm and Swaged or Cast Lead bullets.
Max load w/Unique use 6.8gr and 158gr SWC or HP (cast bullet or jacketed only!); This gives 1,275-1,300fps and excellent accuracy. Duplicates most factory ammo in .357mag.

Use 14.5gr of #2400 under 158gr Cast bullet. This is essentially as accurate as the Unique load, but gives 1,375fps from my 4" Sec.6; My favorite all around load for the .357mag. I use both a 150gr SWC-HP gas checked, and 165gr SWC-GC of the same bullet design.
My 4" Ruger give ~4"groups at 50yds with either load.
Have killed deer with both, and 250lb pig with the 165gr bullet.
Use only "standard" primers with these loads.

Yeah, both powders are not the cleanest, but it's the "soot" that makes these so accurate.
I prefer clean scores to clean bores.

H110 and Hodgdon Lil'gun have both given excellent results, but will both require MAGNUM primers.
18.0gr Hod. LilGun under 158-165gr bullets gives 1,450fps+ from 4"bbl and LOW pressures! My #2 choice for bullets heavier than 150gr. H110 is superior with 125gr bullets, at 19.5gr.

For the wife, I'd only let her shoot the 148gr target loads from the Ruger!
Let her shoot a FEW through the Airweight for familiarization, then load it with FACTORY 125gr +P, but DON'T let her shoot them unless absolutely needed for SD.

I "qualifed" many "male" officers in my career, with the Airweights, and some couldn't tolerate them even with "target wadcutters", not to mention a +P load.
My wife carries a Ruger SP-101 w/1-7/8" bbl and +P .38's. Even I don't care to shoot it with .357's.
Letting her get "confident" with the Ruger will keep her from being "afraid" of the Airweight should she need to use it. Better than "ruining" her with heavy loads in the Airweight.

My "secretary" before I retired kept a .38 Airweight in her desk/purse. She was 5' tall, and weight ~90lbs. She said "yeah, it bites and hurt's the ears, but I bet it's worse on the other end, with a wink"!
I'd bet she's right !!!!!

But, then again, my wife prefers my Ruger Redhawk in .45Colt. She says, "even if I miss 6 times (not likely!), It still makes a great CLUB!, and the size of the holes in the barrel/cylinder makes it unlikely I'll have to use it"!
(A former co-worker who "came looking for me" one night while I was off duty can attest to that!) Dang near got hisself shot that night "tapping" on the door. Next time he "knocked" like he had business, and shouted!!

 

[kludge]

Wow, Goose, great stuff, thanks!

Just so y'all know, I picked up a pound of 2400 last night, a box of 125gr and 158gr jacketed bullets (Speer, they were out of XTP's) and 500 Meister 158gr SWC hard cast bullets. The Unique will have to wait until I use up the Bullseye.

The Airweight belongs to my mother, 66y.o., she only shoots about 10 at a time, and recoil doesn't seem to bother her too much (her "other" gun is a Defender 1300 ), at least she doesn't let on, but I think she has started flinching as of late, so yes the loads will be standard pressure for sure. She has a box of 158gr LSWCHP+P and a box of Golden Saber +P for self defense.

Until the Bullseye is gone I think I'll have my wife shoot mom's .38 loads out of the Ruger.

The .357 loads you mention with Unique/2400 are exactly what I was looking to do. I'm probably going to start with 13.0gr of 2400 and 158gr LSCW and JHP and work up. I wonder why Alliant doest list a 2400/158gr LSCW load on their web site??

Once I get Unique I'll try some light loads in .357.

Is there any reason NOT to use hard cast 158gr SWC in light loads, should I use LRN instead? (Time for me to go to school on cast bullets.)