New to inline muzzleloaders

[peterk1234]

or any muzzleloader for that matter. With bow season winding down and shotgun/blackpowder around the corner, my friend convinced me to purchase a CVA Optima and extend my season beyond hunting with just the bow. He is looking for a hunting companion during gun season, and well, I just plain like to shoot and hunt, so what the heck.

I have been trying to learn about bullets, and loading. Given my enjoyment of reloading for my pistols, I know I will want to tinker with the rifle loads. But damn, this ammo is expensive. No 300 round sessions with this thing at the range

So where are some good sources for bullets? Also, should I look for ones without sabots, so I can experiment with those as well? And here is a really stupid question, is there any reason why I couldn't use a 45 Long Colt bullet from a place like MBC, if I could find a sabot that provided a good fit?

For now I picked up some powerbelts and pellets, just so I can get the gun sighted and ready. However, after the season ends, I plan to get away from pellets and use powder, so I can figure out my most accurate load.

Thank you for your help. Pete

 

[Patocazador]

As far as bullets go, you can use most any .45 or .44 caliber pistol bullet with the proper sabot. One thing to always check is what velocities these various bullets need to expand. Also, you can't push them faster than what they were designed for or they will fail when they hit a deer etc.
Most any .44 (.429) bullet will work with high velocities but some .45 (.451 or .452) bullets will fail upon contact at speeds approaching 2000 fps.

 

[ColtPythonElite]

I buy bulk 250 gr cast bullets for a. 45 Colt and bulk sabots. I use loose Pyrodex and a measure.

 

[peterk1234]

Thank you. Bob, can you talk to me more about potential problems with using 45 pistol bullets for hunting? Is the issue that the bullet will just pass through the deer and not do enough critical damage, or is it purely an issue of the bullet being too soft to handle heat generated by the load, causing excessive leading and probably deformation of the bullet? Pete

 

[Patocazador]

Thank you. Bob, can you talk to me more about potential problems with using 45 pistol bullets for hunting? Is the issue that the bullet will just pass through the deer and not do enough critical damage, or is it purely an issue of the bullet being too soft to handle heat generated by the load, causing excessive leading and probably deformation of the bullet? Pete

The problem is that some .45 cal. bullets are made with very thin copper jackets so that they will function in the 900-1200 fps range of a .45 auto or a .45 long Colt. When pushed to speeds beyond their design, they fragment when hitting the animal. Hornady used to package a slip of paper in their bullet boxes that showed the working range of their XTP bullets. .44 caliber bullets are used mainly in .44 magnums and are constructed so they stay together at higher velocities. (Use green-colored sabots for .44 bullets in a .50 cal. rifle.)

Pete, are you a chef by chance? .... from So. Fla.?

 

[peterk1234]

I only pretend to be a chef, and only at my home

I live in the wonderfully gun restricted state of Massachusetts. Is there a Kovago in Florida?

 

[Fine Figure of a Man]

The bubble packs of bullets and sabots for inline muzzle loaders are a huge rip off.
I use 250 grain .452 XTP's with black harvester sabots and loose powder. They shoot under 2 inches at 100 yards from my cheap CVZ Wolf. Shooting over the crony I settled on 1800fps. When loaded much hotter accuracy decreased significantly, sabot failure is my guess. While I may be exceeding the velocity the bullets were designed for they have preformed very well. I have shot several deer at ranges from 20 to nearly 200 yards. Most have passed through but a couple recovered bullets were perfect mushrooms.
I tried various .429 bullets and green sabots but could only get 4 - 5 inch groups.
I also have some cast 45 cal bullets that I have not tried yet. I hope they work well because I like cheap shooting.

 

[Patocazador]

I only pretend to be a chef, and only at my home

I live in the wonderfully gun restricted state of Massachusetts. Is there a Kovago in Florida?

No, Pete K-----wicz is who I thought you were. Sorry.

 

[peterk1234]

Drunkenpoacher, thank you for the info. I had just this morning stumbled onto some threads doing exactly what you suggested. It basically cuts the cost in half. Are you using Blackhorn 209 or keeping the cost of powder low as well and just use 777?

Man, I can't wait to get out and shoot.

 

[CraigC]

Most .44 bullets will be designed for the .44Mag and should be okay, as long as they are 240gr and above. If you're going to use .45 bullets, make sure you use those designed for the .454 and .460S&W. Anything designed to expand at .45Colt velocities, like the regular 300gr XTP, will expand too quickly at those speeds. Personally, I'd use a 250-300gr LBT.

 

[Fine Figure of a Man]

Drunkenpoacher, thank you for the info. I had just this morning stumbled onto some threads doing exactly what you suggested. It basically cuts the cost in half. Are you using Blackhorn 209 or keeping the cost of powder low as well and just use 777?

Man, I can't wait to get out and shoot.

777 or plane old pyrodex

 

[donparadowski]

or any muzzleloader for that matter. With bow season winding down and shotgun/blackpowder around the corner, my friend convinced me to purchase a CVA Optima and extend my season beyond hunting with just the bow. He is looking for a hunting companion during gun season, and well, I just plain like to shoot and hunt, so what the heck.

I have been trying to learn about bullets, and loading. Given my enjoyment of reloading for my pistols, I know I will want to tinker with the rifle loads. But damn, this ammo is expensive. No 300 round sessions with this thing at the range

So where are some good sources for bullets? Also, should I look for ones without sabots, so I can experiment with those as well? And here is a really stupid question, is there any reason why I couldn't use a 45 Long Colt bullet from a place like MBC, if I could find a sabot that provided a good fit?

For now I picked up some powerbelts and pellets, just so I can get the gun sighted and ready. However, after the season ends, I plan to get away from pellets and use powder, so I can figure out my most accurate load.

Thank you for your help. Pete

I shoot a T/C Strike using BH 209 powder and a CCI primer to propel a Harvester 300 grain PT gold with their black crushed rib sabot. It is a solid 200-yard shooter and if I had a conveniently located range longer than 200 yards, I’d have a longer opinion. If you are going after elk I’d suggest a heavier bullet. I get tight consistent patterns at any distance under 200 yards (wish I had a longer range nearby). I tried the power belts but with their lower Ballistic coefficient they proved to be a reasonable but shorter range bullet. I got decent patterns up to 100 yards.

 

[Jackrabbit1957]

Once you settle on a bullet work up to your most accurate load with loose powder 5 grains at a time until you get the best accuracy with that bullet from a bench rest. It work out to 65 grains up to 100 grains of powder, depends on what your particular rifle likes. The point being not to just shove a bunch of pellets down the bore and call it good. Black Mz is inexpensive and will get you in the ball park.

 

[Bill Raby]

Round balls are really cheap and have worked just fine for hundreds of years. No need for power belts or sabots or any of that nonsense.

 

[gemihur]

As you can determine from reading this thread, Everyone has their own idea as to what recommendation is best for a muzzleloader.
Add to this, there is no SAAMI or standardization to any black powder designs. Each manufacturer gets to design to their own specifications.
Sidelocks, flintlocks, or in-lines, #11 percussion caps or 209 primers, Black powder or synthetic propellant , the twist is an important consideration as to intended projectile ... the choices are endless
My personal choice is a TC Encore and get a 209x50 barrel for it.
Aside from smokeless muzzleloaders (http://badbullmuzzleloaders.com/index.htm) or those made by Austin & Halleck you won't find a more accurate rifle that's not a centerfire.

 

[PapaG]

Round balls are really cheap and have worked just fine for hundreds of years. No need for power belts or sabots or any of that nonsense.

Round balls normally require a much slower twist than the 1 in 28" common to most inlines. For a 50, 1 in 66" is common. Not nonsense, common sense.

 

[Curator]

PapaG,

Patched round balls can be made to shoot quite well in a fast twist rifled inline muzzle loader. However, you are correct that they won't work well when standard heavy hunting charges are used. I run a muzzle loading class for Boy Scouts and 4H where the kids shoot traditional side-locks and inline guns. We shoot the .50 caliber inlines using 50 grains of FFFg black powder and a .495 round ball and a .015" patch, same load as the side locks with slower twist barrels. Shooting off sandbags, the inlines are just as accurate as the sidelocks, often making one ragged hole 5-shot groups at 50 yards. The key to using round balls in fast twist guns is a reasonably tight ball/patch combination and keeping velocity on the low side. My Chrony clocks the 50 grain load at 1350-1400 fps from a 24 inch barrel, so it is no slouch for small game hunting, just not in the big league for deer or Black bear.

 

[PapaG]

My point exactly. People normally buy inlines for two reasons, getting another season in and ease of use with bullets or sabots.