Newbie has a question

[ccjcc81]

I have a question for the experienced reloaders here. I am not entirely new to the reloading process, I have "helped" other people reload and cast several times. I am now setting up my own bench and I am underway in creating my first loads by myself and without the tutelage of more experienced reloaders standing over my shoulder. I have questions about my first step, case prep.

Yesterday I started tumbling shells. I'm using a handed down Midway model 1292. It was handed down with a walnut media that seems to be coated with a red dust or oil. I tumbled about 100 9mm cases for about 3 hours. When they were finished I was not pleased with the appearance of the cases. Many still had powder residue on the outside of the cases. I bought some brass polish and put a little in the media, and added another 400 or so cases to the tumbler and tumbled for about 3 hours more. This did the trick, and the outside of the cases were very nicely cleaned and looked new. However, the inside of the cases were not cleaned well at all. I noticed that there was a heavy coat of red dust on the insides of the case. This was there both before and after I added the polish. I figured that it would come off with water, so I washed a few of them and got the dust out, but there was still a lot of powder residue inside the cases, mostly near the flash hole.

I know that the leftover residue is probably nothing that will noticeably affect reloading, and I know that I may be experiencing what some of you might call "unneeded perfectionistic newbie rigor," but I really want the cases very clean. I am aware that over time I will probably lose this rigor, but right now it is what it is, so let’s move on.

I searched and searched for a better cleaning method online and found many great ones that I cannot afford. I did, however, find this:

http://www.recguns.com/Sources/VIIE5.html

David A. Horton: Here's another trick I've used for a couple of years with very good success: start by cleaning your brass in hot, soapy water. Next, using the same container (unless it is metal -- its preferable that you use glass), add more hot water (as hot as you can stand to the touch), add phosphoric acid at about a half a teaspoon per gallon, and swirl your brass.
The good thing about this method is you can tailor your acid concentration, it cleans even powder residue from the inside of the cases and the primer pockets, and any corrosion is highlighted by a coppery-like look to the brass. Most of these wipe off with a finger unless they are deeper. In such instances you should probably toss the case.
When done, neutralize the acid by pouring in baking soda in until it stops fizzing. After that rinse the cases in hot water again and set them aside the dry. Sounds easy enough, huh? Well, it is. It has a few nice features:
• the acid action is very fast, and cases will come clean almost faster than you can stir them by hand.
• the acid action is self-limiting. You can leave the cases in for an hour, or a week. No harm to the brass because the acid acts only on the corrosion and residue.
• by a procees called "passivation" the brass is actually left more resistant to corrosion after its bath.
• this process is environmentally safe
• you can actually save the solution if you'd like, just don't neutralize it when you are finished. It will last a good while.

Pretty neat, huh?

My question may seem a little moronic to you guys, but here it is:

Can I mix a solution like this and use it in my vibratory tumbler? Are vibratory tumblers built to withstand a liquid cleaning solution? I would like to hear from anyone here who has tried a liquid solution in a vibratory tumbler. Once again I have a Midway model 1292.

I have searched and searched and cannot find an instance where someone used a liquid solution in a vibratory tumbler, so I leave it to THR reloaders.

Thanks guys.

 

[rcmodel]

I wouldn't recommend it.
First, most vibratory tumblers are not sealed or safety rated for use with liquids.
You could get electrocuted if it leaks into the motor or wiring!

Your problem is partially that your media is worn out and full of iron oxide dust.

Your second problem is that no vibratory tumbler will do a good job of cleaning the inside of the cases.
They become packed full of media as soon as you turn on the tumbler, so very little if any media movement can occur inside the cases.

Bottom line is, cases don't need to be sparkly clean & shiny inside anyway.

Get some new media and forget about the acid bath.
It's way more trouble & risk then it is worth.

rc

 

[loadedround]

It appears that it's time to change your media, it has reached the end of it's useful cycle. You may toss in one or two of those laundry anti-static cloths to absorb some of that red dust, but it's best to just replace it. I have found that most times the inside of my cases never get really clean since the media itself gets packed inside and tumbling does not effect the insides much. The polishing compound does help a little in the cleaning.

 

[ccjcc81]

Ok, thank you. I thought that the red dust was some sort of treatment for the walnut. When my uncle gave me the tumbler, that was in it, and he said it was still good. My uncle is a penny pincher, so I understand this. As per other recommendations, I went to petsmart and got huge bag of crushed walnut reptile bedding for $7.99. The were charging twice as much for half the media at the gun shop, and it looks virtually the same. Guess I'm a pincher too.

 

[Randy1911]

I have heard of some people putting a red rouge powder in the media to help with the polishing. That could be the red dust. Personnally, I don't like doing that. I use corn cob media with little bit of polish. It gets the cases very shinny.

 

[danimalw]

I agree with Randy about the rouge. Lyman had a polishing media that had the rouge already on it. I tried it ONCE and took it back to the store. That residue stuck to everything.

The cheapest media that I've found so far.....at least in my area and without shipping.... Lizard Liner from a pet store. It's crushed walnut shells just like we buy elsewhere without the "reloading supplies" markup.

On a side note on the tumbler..... Midway issued a recall on that model years ago for a potential fire hazard. I never had a problem with mine, but did finally send it back. Here's a link about the recall. http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml98/98088.html

Good luck

 

[ccjcc81]

Hey, thanks for the recall warning! I'll be sending the tumbler back for repair!

 

[qajaq59]

Don't use brass polish. Some of it has ammonia in it and that will adversely effect your brass.

 

[Legionnaire]

Don't use brass polish. Some of it has ammonia in it and that will adversely effect your brass.

Franklin Arsenal makes a brash polish / media additive that is safe for brass. But many of us just add half a capful of liquid Nu-Finish car polish. Another trick is to add about half a USED dryer sheet (I cut mine into two-inch squares) to your tumbler media; it traps a lot of the dust from the media/brass. Toss them out when you remove the brass from the media. It's amazing how much dust they collect, and how much they extend the life of your media. I stuck a plastic bucket in our laundry room with a "Put used dryer sheets here" sign on it and have collected more than I need.

 

[RustyFN]

But many of us just add half a capful of liquid Nu-Finish car polish. Another trick is to add about half a USED dryer sheet (I cut mine into two-inch squares) to your tumbler media; it traps a lot of the dust from the media/brass.

Yep that's the same thing I do, works great. A paper towel will work when you don't have a used dryer sheet.

 

[zxcvbob]

You're using Lyman "Tuff Nut" polishing media that's treated with rouge. Rouge is good, but Tuff Nut it has way too much of it.

Mix it about 50% with some fine-crushed corncob media or untreated walnut media ("Lizard Litter" from the pet shop is pretty good) and it works much better.

 

[Grumulkin]

I have a Lyman tumbler that is made to take liquid or dry media but I've always used walnut shells and rouge. I've been using the same media for probably 15 or 20 YEARS and it still gets the cases shiny after 2 hours of tumbling with no rouge excess.

I would say the red stuff on your cases is rouge and apparently in excess quantity. That in itself shouldn't delay case cleaning so I would conclude that the Midway tumbler ain't that good.

 

[Steve C]

However, the inside of the cases were not cleaned well at all.

The inside of the cases have been subject to the burning powder and will not come clean bright and shiny. It simply makes no difference anyway so don't worry about it. If you want cases shiny inside buy virgin brass and it will be so one time. The brass from Winclean ammo is very clean after firing too.

One of the main reasons its good to clean the brass is that it avoids transferring grit onto the sizing die that can result in scratches on the case. When I got my first tumbler it came with walnut shell media treated with the red jewelers rouge. It did fine in cleaning the brass but as you found the brass is often left dusted with the rouge. It can be wiped off with a cloth but that's kind of time consuming. Adding some of the liquid polish from Dillon or Midway when the media was a little tired got rid of the dust. I changed to walnut shell from the pet store treat it with liquid polish specifically for cases. I've been using the Midway polish for a couple years now.