Cheeseybacon
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Just out of curiosity, how do the heavy hitting Safari rounds like the .600 and .700 Nitro Express compare with a .50 BMG round? Are they even comparable at all?
Nitro Express stuff vs. .50 BMG
- Thread starter Cheeseybacon
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Jim Watson
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Not in terms of velocity and energy, the .600 N.E. shoots a 900 gr bullet at 1950 fps for 7600 fp; the .50 BMG a 700 gr bullet at 2700 fps for about 12,000 fp.
But then you are not going to fire a .50 BMG from a 15 lb safari rifle, either.
Are you?
But then you are not going to fire a .50 BMG from a 15 lb safari rifle, either.
Are you?
50 Shooter
member
15 pound safari rifle, bah!
A 13.5 pound .50 would be better!
http://www.anzioironworks.com/light_50.htm
A 13.5 pound .50 would be better!
http://www.anzioironworks.com/light_50.htm
Sniper X
Member
Nitro>?>
Isn't Nitro Express stuff still all some kind of black powder based? With a nitro additive?
Isn't Nitro Express stuff still all some kind of black powder based? With a nitro additive?
Sniper X
Member
Plus, on dangerous game such as Rhino isn't the bigger round better for first shot kills? I remember seeing a lot of .577 NE and such used in Africian Safaris.
JesseL
Member
Sniper X:
Nope, the Nitro Express rounds were among the first cartridges to use smokeless powder.
Nope, the Nitro Express rounds were among the first cartridges to use smokeless powder.
Wes Janson
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The Anzios (and related patterns) are quite comfortable to shoot. I've never tried a Nitro, but I imagine it to be a heck of a lot worse, lacking a muzzle brake.
The nitro express rounds as well as a lot of other safari cartridges follow "rainbow" trajectories falling at ridiculous rates making them impractical for anything other than close range stopping rifles. At the gun show I went to yesterday this one collector was selling his 4-bore (about .95 caliber) 
it was absolutely enormous, looking like something right out of a cartoon.
He also had a few of the 1750 grain (1/2lb) bullets on display as well.
Not something that I would want to casually hunt with, but if you're ever in the situation where a giant worm monster comes through your wall it would be the thing to have
I have also always been fascinated with punt guns.
it was absolutely enormous, looking like something right out of a cartoon.He also had a few of the 1750 grain (1/2lb) bullets on display as well.
Not something that I would want to casually hunt with, but if you're ever in the situation where a giant worm monster comes through your wall it would be the thing to have
I have also always been fascinated with punt guns.
JesseL
Member
Impala said:
1750 grains is 1/4lb since 7000 grains = 1lb. Still plenty big enough for me
HeedJSU
Member
the mention of the 4-bore got me interested. Found this on the field and stream site for anyone who may be interested, as I was.
http://www.fieldandstream.com/fieldstream/shooting/article/0,13199,1007499,00.html#
Justin
http://www.fieldandstream.com/fieldstream/shooting/article/0,13199,1007499,00.html#
Justin
Cheeseybacon
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I did a little bit of poking around and apparently they make a 5-shot revolver in .600 Nitro Express. Unbelievable! Makes a S&W 500 look like a pea-shooter.
http://www.pfeifer-waffen.at/cms/html/index.php?module=htmlpages&func=display&pid=32
Makes a S&W 500 look like a pea-shooter.http://www.pfeifer-waffen.at/cms/html/index.php?module=htmlpages&func=display&pid=32
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The Nitro Express, NE, rounds replaced the Black Powder Express BPE, rounds at about the turn of the century.
The original NE rounds were filled with cotton strings which had been soaked in Nitro Cellulose gel then were implanted lengthwise into the brass cases.
The original NE rounds were very temperature sensitive and would produce high chamber pressures if allowed to get to hot. thus the old Ivory hunters trick of replacing your cartridges from your gun to your belt every hour or so due to the extreme temperatures in which elephants tend to be hunted in.
The rounds will become very hot sitting in the twin chambers of your black gun in 120 deg heat when spooring an elephant for 20 or 30 miles a day.
Today these rounds use a bulky powder which is often times referred to as a nitro replacement. For instance my .470 load of choice is 106 gr of IMR 4831 under a 500 gr Woodleigh or 97gr of H4350 under the longer Barnes mono metal bullets.
It is crucial that most of the space in these giant NE cases is filled with powder or one risks the chance of a chamber detonation which can destroy your rifle. If one is using a less bulky powder then it is a requirement to use a filler to eliminate the airspace in the case. the rule of thumb is not to have any more than 1/8'' airspace in any nitro case.
As far as NE rounds only being good as close range stoppers. That is a bit of a misnomer. It really depends on the NE round chosen. The original NE was the .450 3&¼”which launched a 480 gr bullet @ 2150 fps the next in line was the .450/400 3&¼ firing a 400 gr bullet @ 2150fps and then the .470 NE. All three of these rounds and many of the sub .500 call rounds are effective on game out to about 250 yards with some practice. Once you step up to the .500 NE and over you are starting to get into the real stopping rounds.
My longest double rifle NE kill was on this Black wildebeest @ 218 yards with a .470 NE.
My .470 weighs 10.5 lbs and is a short well balanced piece that swings and handles like a fine shotgun. These attributes are desired when hunting DG. There are no .50 BMG rifles which offer those type of handling qualities making them unrealistic in the hunting fields of Africa.
From left to right .470 NE, .30-06, .308 the bullets are a pair of Barnes .470 500gr one an X the other a solid. Both were recovered from a cape buffalo.
The original NE rounds were filled with cotton strings which had been soaked in Nitro Cellulose gel then were implanted lengthwise into the brass cases.
The original NE rounds were very temperature sensitive and would produce high chamber pressures if allowed to get to hot. thus the old Ivory hunters trick of replacing your cartridges from your gun to your belt every hour or so due to the extreme temperatures in which elephants tend to be hunted in.
The rounds will become very hot sitting in the twin chambers of your black gun in 120 deg heat when spooring an elephant for 20 or 30 miles a day.
Today these rounds use a bulky powder which is often times referred to as a nitro replacement. For instance my .470 load of choice is 106 gr of IMR 4831 under a 500 gr Woodleigh or 97gr of H4350 under the longer Barnes mono metal bullets.
It is crucial that most of the space in these giant NE cases is filled with powder or one risks the chance of a chamber detonation which can destroy your rifle. If one is using a less bulky powder then it is a requirement to use a filler to eliminate the airspace in the case. the rule of thumb is not to have any more than 1/8'' airspace in any nitro case.
As far as NE rounds only being good as close range stoppers. That is a bit of a misnomer. It really depends on the NE round chosen. The original NE was the .450 3&¼”which launched a 480 gr bullet @ 2150 fps the next in line was the .450/400 3&¼ firing a 400 gr bullet @ 2150fps and then the .470 NE. All three of these rounds and many of the sub .500 call rounds are effective on game out to about 250 yards with some practice. Once you step up to the .500 NE and over you are starting to get into the real stopping rounds.
My longest double rifle NE kill was on this Black wildebeest @ 218 yards with a .470 NE.
My .470 weighs 10.5 lbs and is a short well balanced piece that swings and handles like a fine shotgun. These attributes are desired when hunting DG. There are no .50 BMG rifles which offer those type of handling qualities making them unrealistic in the hunting fields of Africa.
From left to right .470 NE, .30-06, .308 the bullets are a pair of Barnes .470 500gr one an X the other a solid. Both were recovered from a cape buffalo.
hardhit777
Member
lEvery single part is made by hand and is matched individually for each Zeliska revolver.
The Zeliska revolver is unique and a masterpiece of the art of gunsmithing.
Due to the weight of the gun, shooting the Zeliska is no problem for a skilled marksman.
There won’t be any permanent damage inflicted to your wrist.
thats looks like it would hurt alot...
The Zeliska is also available in cal. .458 Win. Mag., take into consideration that the price for this ammunition is much lower than for .600 Nitro Magnum..
The Zeliska revolver is unique and a masterpiece of the art of gunsmithing.
Due to the weight of the gun, shooting the Zeliska is no problem for a skilled marksman.
There won’t be any permanent damage inflicted to your wrist.
thats looks like it would hurt alot...
The Zeliska is also available in cal. .458 Win. Mag., take into consideration that the price for this ammunition is much lower than for .600 Nitro Magnum..
Wes Janson
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I dunno...if you really wanted to, I'm sure you could get a .50 BMG lightweight down to a bit over 10 pounds, that would handle fairly decently. An 18" Ligamec Ultralite50 is around 14 pounds. What I'd really go for would be a semiauto .50 Spotter Ultralite, with a 3-round magazine. It would be a bit pricey, but definitely less than a classic "big bore". I don't remember the exact ballistics, but I want to say roughly 700-800 grains (depending on load-original spotter proj was about 800, but I imagine a hunting bullet would be closer to 700) at ~2100 fps. So somewhere in the vicinity of 7000 foot-pounds.
Sniper X
Member
I shot a guys Kynoch .577 Nitro Express at a range in Monterey California when I lived there. He bought it (rich dude from Pebble Beach) and actually drove it and himself to the range in a Ferarri F40, and had never shot the gun beofre. I was there shooting a few of my guns and he asked if I would shoot it so he could see what it was like.
I did, and he didn;t want to shoot it!
It was some Brittish make, not sure of what it was. Beautiful, and I'm sure very very expensive, he said over a hunderd grand! It actuallly wasn't THAT bad! Kinda like twice a 12ga with slugs.
He said the ammo was about $30.00 a pop, I said bad pun! more like 30 bucks a BOOM!
I did, and he didn;t want to shoot it!
It was some Brittish make, not sure of what it was. Beautiful, and I'm sure very very expensive, he said over a hunderd grand! It actuallly wasn't THAT bad! Kinda like twice a 12ga with slugs.
He said the ammo was about $30.00 a pop, I said bad pun! more like 30 bucks a BOOM!
oregonhunter
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An NE is more expensive to shoot but I feel is a classic round that has done its job in africa for many years. That blue bullet is not incindiery, My grandfather shoots the same bullets in his 338 lapua and 470 ne and they sure as hell aren't incindiery.
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Wes,
No can do any semi auto rifle in Africa for hunting. I f you could get a .50 BMG paired down to a manageable weight it would make a very effective round for killing DG. Of course if you are talking a 700gr bullet @ 2100 you are actually under what the big bore NE and A2 rounds are doing already. A .577 Tyrannosaur pushes a 750 Gr bullet @ 2400 +. Aside from commercial poachers I am not aware that a .50 BMG has ever been used by a sportsmen to kill DG in Africa.
Those blue tipped bullets are Barnes XLC molly coated. They are a monolithic hollow point.
No can do any semi auto rifle in Africa for hunting. I f you could get a .50 BMG paired down to a manageable weight it would make a very effective round for killing DG. Of course if you are talking a 700gr bullet @ 2100 you are actually under what the big bore NE and A2 rounds are doing already. A .577 Tyrannosaur pushes a 750 Gr bullet @ 2400 +. Aside from commercial poachers I am not aware that a .50 BMG has ever been used by a sportsmen to kill DG in Africa.
Those blue tipped bullets are Barnes XLC molly coated. They are a monolithic hollow point.
Wes Janson
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Semi-autos are illegal, or considered unreliable?
If you're talking bolt-action only, there are some detachable mag-fed repeaters that weigh in at around 15-16 pounds chambered in .50 BMG that should give 700gr at 2700 fps, IIRC.
If you're talking bolt-action only, there are some detachable mag-fed repeaters that weigh in at around 15-16 pounds chambered in .50 BMG that should give 700gr at 2700 fps, IIRC.
hardhit777
Member
wow i was just looking on youtube.com for vids of guys shooting the 577
t-rex and ran across this beast of a rifle. Its a double barrel BOLT ACTION. I want.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7273185959068799190&q=rifle&hl=en
t-rex and ran across this beast of a rifle. Its a double barrel BOLT ACTION.
I want.http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7273185959068799190&q=rifle&hl=en
ArchAngelCD
Member.
NOW THAT'S JUST SICK!!! But I would like to see one shot sometime... LOL
Sniper X
Member
As we say in New Mexico, HOLEY GUACAMOLIE! That double bolt gun is AWESOME! Heck watching the action work alone is worht the price of admission! WHat cartridge was that like a 375H&H mag?
Bwana John
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Im sure there is empirical evidence for shooting big game with a .50 BMG.... I think the door gunner had a M-60 but you get the idea.
PercyShelley
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I notice that he's shooting it in an anechoic chamber!
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