WPD230
Member
Does anyone know weather or not the Norinco SKS is legal in California? My cousin wants to sell his, and I'd be happy to take it off his hands but the freakin gun laws out here are rediculous!!!
Norinco SKS CA legal?
- Thread starter WPD230
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It depends on if it has the grenade launcher still attached, and has the original fixed magazine and stock (I think).
Go to Calguns for a more definite answer. http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/index.php
Go to Calguns for a more definite answer. http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/index.php
Rubber_Duck
Member
Norincos don't have grenade launchers.
At least mine doesn't.
At least mine doesn't.
http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/regs/genchar2.php
Is the important info... then there is also this.
http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/infobuls/kaslist.pdf
Is the important info... then there is also this.
http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/infobuls/kaslist.pdf
billwiese
Member
SKSes are in some ways the most weird of CA's banned guns... they're on the 1989 Roberti-Roos 'named' guns list, but are defined by a feature and not make/model combo, and they do not have a 'make' associated with their listing.
The intent of the Roberti-Roos listing of "SKS with detachable magazine" seems primarily to target the Norinco SKS-D rifle (and maybe a shorter bbl'd "SKS Cowboy" variant w/similar mag adaptation) - one that had some architectural changes so as to use AK magazines. But any true SKS rifle model that can use a manually detachable magazine would be included in this. An SKS tweaked to use the SKS detachable 'duckbill' mags thus would be a no-no too. There may be drama associated with such a rifle even if it were rendered into a fixed-10-rd mag form (the whole late 90s SKS buyback thing, which I haven't followed too much).
For CA folks, any SKS should have the original bone-stock 10rd swing-down mag. Frankly the rifle looks/runs best this way, it's a damned good design for what it is.
Regardless of detachable magazine issue, a true SKS that has a grenade launcher is a no-no: even when separated from the rifle the GL is considered to intrinsically be a 'destructive device' under CA law.
It is important to note that under CA law, the common Zastava Arms M59 or M59/66 carbines - colloquially referred to as "Yugo SKS" in ads - are not really SKS rifles, as they have a proper make/model designation which does not include "SKS". For "SKS" term to be applied to these Zastava carbine it would turn into a "series", and
(1) the law didn't include "series" wording for "SKS w/detachable mag" item;
(2) 2001 Harrott decision requires "series" members to be
formally identified in regulatory code before being considered banned;
Because of the above, Yugo Zastava M59 and M59/66 carbines could have detachable magazines if desired in CA - though such folks doing this would have to ensure Fed 922(r) 'domestic parts count' compliance issues are observed.
[Yugo Zastava M59/66 carbines do have grenade launchers which must be removed or disabled (i.e, welded sleeve over it) prior to their entry into CA (a local CA FFL cannot make these changes).]
Bill Wiese
San Jose CA
The intent of the Roberti-Roos listing of "SKS with detachable magazine" seems primarily to target the Norinco SKS-D rifle (and maybe a shorter bbl'd "SKS Cowboy" variant w/similar mag adaptation) - one that had some architectural changes so as to use AK magazines. But any true SKS rifle model that can use a manually detachable magazine would be included in this. An SKS tweaked to use the SKS detachable 'duckbill' mags thus would be a no-no too. There may be drama associated with such a rifle even if it were rendered into a fixed-10-rd mag form (the whole late 90s SKS buyback thing, which I haven't followed too much).
For CA folks, any SKS should have the original bone-stock 10rd swing-down mag. Frankly the rifle looks/runs best this way, it's a damned good design for what it is.
Regardless of detachable magazine issue, a true SKS that has a grenade launcher is a no-no: even when separated from the rifle the GL is considered to intrinsically be a 'destructive device' under CA law.
It is important to note that under CA law, the common Zastava Arms M59 or M59/66 carbines - colloquially referred to as "Yugo SKS" in ads - are not really SKS rifles, as they have a proper make/model designation which does not include "SKS". For "SKS" term to be applied to these Zastava carbine it would turn into a "series", and
(1) the law didn't include "series" wording for "SKS w/detachable mag" item;
(2) 2001 Harrott decision requires "series" members to be
formally identified in regulatory code before being considered banned;
Because of the above, Yugo Zastava M59 and M59/66 carbines could have detachable magazines if desired in CA - though such folks doing this would have to ensure Fed 922(r) 'domestic parts count' compliance issues are observed.
[Yugo Zastava M59/66 carbines do have grenade launchers which must be removed or disabled (i.e, welded sleeve over it) prior to their entry into CA (a local CA FFL cannot make these changes).]
Bill Wiese
San Jose CA
ccsniper
member
no offense to locals of california. but your state sucks when it comes to guns.
Quiet
Member
If you think CA sucks, check out HI, NY and NJ.
They're a lot worse.
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Funderb
Member
Oh, sorry for being grammar police, but it sure did tidy up in here!
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CT has an assault weapons ban, but SKS' don't fall under the restrictions as long as you leave them with the fixed, non-detachable magazine. They can have all of the "evil features" normally banned because of this.
I am not sure of the wording in CA, but it's possible they are allowed. I'd carefully read the statute yourself, and consult a lawyer or trusted gun shop about it. In CT, I became aware that certain rifles were legal here only when I saw them for sale at a shop, and asked "how are those legal?" Saiga's in anything except 7.62x39, and SKS's with all of the evil features minus the detachable mag are examples, and I own one of each now
I am not sure of the wording in CA, but it's possible they are allowed. I'd carefully read the statute yourself, and consult a lawyer or trusted gun shop about it. In CT, I became aware that certain rifles were legal here only when I saw them for sale at a shop, and asked "how are those legal?" Saiga's in anything except 7.62x39, and SKS's with all of the evil features minus the detachable mag are examples, and I own one of each now
Aaryq
Member
SKS is legal in CA as long as you don't have a detachable mag or grenade launcher. Trust me.
ccsniper
member
PHP:
"If you think CA sucks, check out HI, NY and NJ.
They're a lot worse."i live in Arkansas, im proud to say that we score a D- on the brady scale. the only reason were not an F is because are citizens have to go to a "class" for a conceal carry permit. the class is 12 hours lecture, 5 minutes of "do you know what the weapon is? can you shoot it?".
D
Deleted member 83902
Guest
So to clarify...a SKS with a detachable magazine (regardless of capacity) is illegal (felony?) in California?
Would a SKS with the standard fixed 10rd "stripper clip" magazine be legal?
Would a SKS with the standard fixed 10rd "stripper clip" magazine be legal?
billwiese
Member
Yep.
Even though it's topoligically identical to allowed conventionally-stocked Ruger Min14s, or M1As, SKSes can't have detachable magazines. The only other instance of similar control exerted on a 'normal' (non-pistol-gripped) rifle is the Springfield Armory clone of the Beretta BM59, which is banned-by-name.
The original goal of this was probably mired in confusion of SKS vs. AK, esp with all the SKS 'dress up' kits that made it look like an AK. (Police reports even confuse them, SKSes are frequently called AK47s.) And the law was likely targeted at the Norinco SKS variant (SKS-D? SKS 'Cowboy??) whose receiver was modded to take AK47 magazines.
Nevertheless, any rifle that is formally termed as an SKS (further discussed below) should not have a detachable magazine. Detachable means hand-detachable in normal use - not something that's tool removable. The standard Russkie, Chinese, etc. SKS does NOT have a detachable magazine.
In CA, SKSes should NOT be modified to use fixed magazines holding over than 10 rounds. This triggers another AW definition.
Simple assault weapon possession in California can be charged as a felony or misdemeanor ("wobbler"). With the advent of AB2728 in 2006, there also exists an 'alternate civil compromise' resolution which is basically a nuisance charge (i.e., same severity as a code compliance violation ticket for not mowing your lawn or for parking an RV in your yard, etc.)
This latter civil compromise situation results in loss of gun and perhaps a small fine: this allows the DA to actually get some income as 'bait' instead of spending $10K or more allocated departmental costs to fight a felony - this allows him to couch that no-prosecute choice in budgetary terms.
AW possession violations are still often charged as felonies and if no other 'color' present - drugs, violence, theft... i.e., a 'pure gun charge' - can frequently be plead down with varying levels of effort depending on area. But one should not rely on AB2728 to get one's ass outta the sling: it exists, but is not guaranteed to be utilized.
Apart from simple AW possession, there are separate AW import/transport charges which are true felonies and not wobblers - and which do not have the alternate civil compromise fixup available. Illegal unreg'd AWs found in a car often result in both two charges, for transport and possession and that takes more effort to plead down.
One noted gun lawyer tells me, however, that 75% of all AW charges in CA have resulted from 'domestic' situations. This does not necessarily mean due to 'domestic violence' but for any of various reasons why a cop could come to/thru your house (exigency, aid, etc.) An acquaintance lost his AR10 that way due to a situation with his ill/elderly dad (fortunately he was not prosecuted and just lost the gun).
Some idiots try to save the few bucks their rifle/receiver is worth and drive it or the receiver to AZ or NV. Very stupid decision, because they've escalated risk of a simple, more easily fought possession charge to a felony transport charge on top of the possession charge. They're trading chance of recovering a few bucks for felony risk/legal fees. Not a bright choice.
Yep. Tons of 'em at gunshops throughout California. No issues. Everyone has one, it'd seem.
Note that if the fixed magazine holds over 10 rounds, that triggers a separate, alternate version of the generic AW law.
Note that what's colloquially referred to as a "Yugo SKS" is not an SKS for purposes of CA law, as the actual entity is a Zastava Arms M59 or M59/66 carbine.
(These Yugo carbines should NOT have grenade launchers attached: aside from being 'evil feature' for AW status, these attachements are intrinsically 'destructive devices' per CA law whether attached to rifle or not.)
CA AW law, thru the Harrott decision, requires specificity on banned guns, generally by make/model. Extending the scope of a banned-by-name entity to include another entity 'just because' doesn't fly (and would create a 'series'). Not being a formally identified SKS, these Zastava Arms carbines could legitimately have a detachable magazine in CA (though one would have render it 922(r) compliant playing the "10-or-less key foreign parts" game, and/or render it into 'sporting configuration'). Kinda a waste of time though - these are great guns that work fine with stripper clips, and probably are best left unmangled.
I don't expect the CA AW laws to stand a whole lot longer. We've shot a lotta holes in it and there are a ton of internal inconsistencies within it that are coming to light - plus wild-arsed enforcement all over the map by Calif DOJ Firearms Bureau who don't understand the law (or guns). We've really torn it up with the massive influx of 'off-list' rifles just slightly tweaked to avoid being generically described as AWs.
Bill Wiese
San Jose CA
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