Normal for M80?

[Mr. Pepper Nose]

Picked up some M80 a while back after grabbing a RARP (Ruger 18"). I can find Winchester Super X 308 for cheaper generally, but figured I'd give NATO a taste. Do they all look this blemished? Is that actual corrosion or just from manufacturing and a sealent?

They seemed to shoot at least an inch low at 100 meters vs the 308 I sighted in a few weeks back. Figured that might be normal for something designed to be fired out of a chamber that wouldn't play nice with the higher pressures of 308. On the other hand, I seemed to be shooting a bit low. Damn bags and benches were not playing nice with the height of my target.

My groups left me wanting, but I want to say the M80 grouped tighter than my Super X Power Point. A lot of flyers, so possibly shooter error. I want to say 3/4" on Super vs 1/2" on M80 when disregarding the flyers...if I can even call them that.

Mostly wondering what everyone's experience has been with Lake City M80 vs. something like Super X. It came in Winchester WB, but it's still not clear to me whether or not it's true "M80" or just a marketing gimmick.

 

[JCooperfan1911]

It’s totally fine, just a bit of oxidation. Normal with military surplus loads. Looks maybe tar sealed, also totally normal. Stop worrying LOL.

 

[Mr. Pepper Nose]

It’s totally fine, just a bit of oxidation. Normal with military surplus loads. Looks maybe tar sealed, also totally normal. Stop worrying LOL.

I fired all 20 without hesitation. I post more out of curiosity. I have two more boxes and I intend to fire them.

I've seen mostly negative comments regarding M80, so I was pleased to see what appeared to be tighter groups due to the cartridge itself.

Am I overlooking something? Are Winchester Power Points known for larger groups? I get that it's not intended for plinking, but it's the cheapest ammo I was able to stock and serves a dual purpose for hunting (Super X).

 

[12Bravo20]

Were you shooting 150 grain or 180 grain Winchester power points?

Normally heavier bullets will have a lower POI at 100 yards. Or at least that has always been my experience when going form 308 150 grain bullets to 308 168 grain bullets.

As far as groups go, it can depend on the ammo quality and also on the individual gun/barrel. I'll give an example. I have a Savage Model 12 FVL and a PSA PA10 AR both in 308. The Savage will shoot Norma Tac 150Gr FMJ like a laser at 100 yards while it didn't group worth a crap when shot from the PA10. And Winchester White Box 149Gr M80 shot better in the PA10 than it did out of the Savage. I still got better groups with the M80 out of the Savage but not even close to the tight groups of the Norma Tac.

 

[Charlie98]

I've found LC to be pretty messy out of the box... nothing like commercial cartridges you would buy in a box. My last 500rd box of 7.62mm LC looked like it had been swept up off the floor, it was so filthy. I've also had issues with LC, both loaded ammos and components, with corrosion and spots. I'll likely start a thread on it, because I need to know what I'm looking at. LC, as you might have guessed, is not my favorite.

2" at 100yds is pretty good for M80. My Savage 10TAC hates pretty much anything 150grn, including LC and other surplus., but it depends on your rifle.

 

[Mr. Pepper Nose]

Were you shooting 150 grain or 180 grain Winchester power points?

Normally heavier bullets will have a lower POI at 100 yards. Or at least that has always been my experience when going form 308 150 grain bullets to 308 168 grain bullets.

As far as groups go, it can depend on the ammo quality and also on the individual gun/barrel. I'll give an example. I have a Savage Model 12 FVL and a PSA PA10 AR both in 308. The Savage will shoot Norma Tac 150Gr FMJ like a laser at 100 yards while it didn't group worth a crap when shot from the PA10. And Winchester White Box 149Gr M80 shot better in the PA10 than it did out of the Savage. I still got better groups with the M80 out of the Savage but not even close to the tight groups of the Norma Tac.

180 grain on the Power Points, but they fired higher. Potentially shooter error (didnt help that was well below freezing and snow covered), but it seemed too consistent. Figured 7.62 spec differences may have caused a lighter grain to shoot lower than a heavier grain of 308.

I understand each firearm will eat certain cartridges more nicely, but I'm starting to have a suspicion I may be chasing an MOA that I cannot achieve with my setup (i.e., RARP & Super X).

The cheapest ammunition in my area is generally at grocery stores and is usually Winchester hunting ammunition.

 

[JCooperfan1911]

I fired all 20 without hesitation. I post more out of curiosity. I have two more boxes and I intend to fire them.

I've seen mostly negative comments regarding M80, so I was pleased to see what appeared to be tighter groups due to the cartridge itself.

Am I overlooking something? Are Winchester Power Points known for larger groups? I get that it's not intended for plinking, but it's the cheapest ammo I was able to stock and serves a dual purpose for hunting (Super X).

It’s a battle round.

Designed to be minute of Slavic communist out to 500 yards or so.

It does the job.

 

[FL-NC]

Even rounds of the same weight from different manufacturers will behave differently in a given rifle. My 243 groups well with both Winchester power points and the Norma round, both 100 grain SP- but the groups aren't in the same place. M80 is only used in the US mil in machine guns now, which is the best use for it. All other US mil rifles in common use in 7.62 x 51 are designed for more precision use, with the standard round being a 175 grain SMK boat tail.

 

[Dave DeLaurant]

Winchester white box eh? To me it looks more like something that has been handled and repackaged a few times.

I remember being irritated one time back in the 1980s when I bought some M1 Carbine ball ammo in a brand new box (at a new ammo price too) that turned out to have headstamps from the '40s -- the brass had the same kind of look to it.

 

[Jerry M]

The problem you experienced with fliers is the reason not to practice with surplus ball. You are never really sure if you're the cause or the round is the problem.

Good Luck

 

[hps1]

View attachment 1050959

Picked up some M80 a while back after grabbing a RARP (Ruger 18"). I can find Winchester Super X 308 for cheaper generally, but figured I'd give NATO a taste. Do they all look this blemished? Is that actual corrosion or just from manufacturing and a sealent?

They seemed to shoot at least an inch low at 100 meters vs the 308 I sighted in a few weeks back. Figured that might be normal for something designed to be fired out of a chamber that wouldn't play nice with the higher pressures of 308. On the other hand, I seemed to be shooting a bit low. Damn bags and benches were not playing nice with the height of my target.

My groups left me wanting, but I want to say the M80 grouped tighter than my Super X Power Point. A lot of flyers, so possibly shooter error. I want to say 3/4" on Super vs 1/2" on M80 when disregarding the flyers...if I can even call them that.

Mostly wondering what everyone's experience has been with Lake City M80 vs. something like Super X. It came in Winchester WB, but it's still not clear to me whether or not it's true "M80" or just a marketing gimmick.

Back in 2012, I picked up a case of loose rounds of "American Eagle XM193BL newly manufactured" ammo from one of the premier US distributors at a good price as LC brass was touted as being some of the best. I ran into issues on first trip to range which led to an extensive search for the cause of a blown primer, thanks to the input from some pretty knowledgeable reloaders/shooters in this thread.
http://www.predatormastersforums.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2258010&page=1
Never did figure out why this lot of ammo had mixed headstamps, but I believe this actually was the cause of the blown primer on 4th or 5th round fired.

All cases were marked LC 11, but some had the NATO stamp (and crimped primers), others lacked the NATO marking and primers were un-crimped. Had no issues with the NATO marked cases.

While I have no way of testing the brass hardness, it is my belief that the LC cases without the NATO stamp is soft(er), if for no other reason less work hardening due to lack of NATO stamp and lack of crimped primer in the non-Nato cases, both of which would work harden the brass. I suspect this made the non-NATO cases unsuitable for loading to 5.56 dimensions.

Further examination of this lot of ammo revealed that powder charges varied considerably, as did base to ogive seating depth, which combined to further exacerbate the problem.

The LC Army Ammunition plant was operated by Remington from 1941-45, reopened in 1950-1985 when contract was given to Olin, which would account for the Winchester white box .7.62 packaging. https://afte.org/laravel.php/gallery/index/825

Regards,
hps