North Carolina question

[dullh]

Does NC allow CCW in state parks? I know our CCW permits are
damn near useless in this state, what with all the restrictions on where
we cannot carry; I'm asking because when the federal law takes effect in
February 2010 if NC doesn't allow carry in state parks then carry will not
be allowed on the Parkway, and in national parks/forests in NC, right?

As they say in da 'hood: holla back!

 

[dullh]

So nobody knows? What about "NavyLT"? You're into legal mumbo jumbo...so does anyone know?

 

[NavyLCDR]

HAHA! Sorry, dullh, I actually don't have time to go deep searching for that. In Washington we have what we call WACs, Washington Administrative Codes, so basically, we have Revised Code of Washington (RCW) which are statutes created by the legislature. Those statutes will give different organizations authority to make rules. So, in this case, the statutes give the Parks Department authority to make rules, the rules they make are Washington Administrative Code. So, for instance, in RCW's there is no prohibition against carrying a firearm in a daycare center. However, the Department of Public Safety has stuatory authority to make rules, and in the rules they made, the WACs, there is a prohibition against carrying a firearm in a daycare center. SO, what that means is I cannot be arrested and charged with a firearm crime for carrying in a daycare, but the daycare can call the police and have me removed and charged with trespassing (only if I didn't leave when they asked me to).

The reason I explain that is because you not only have to search the North Carolina Statutes, but also the state park rules in North Carolina. If the prohibition is in the statutes, they can charge you with a firearm offense. If the prohibition is in the state park rules, they can kick you out of the state park, but not arrest you.

Sorry, but now I don't have the time to look for NC statutes AND state park rules in NC , but hopefully you have a little better understanding how it all fits together, even though I did absolutely nothing to answer your question.

 

[NavyLCDR]

I would venture to GUESS, according to this:
http://www.jus.state.nc.us/NCJA/ncfirearmslaws.pdf

State Parks are NOT a prohibited place by statute.

 

[NavyLCDR]

Dang it dullh,

POSSESSION of firearms is prohibited in North Carolina State Parks by state park rules. Like I said earlier, they can kick you out of the state park, but can't arrest you unless you refuse to leave.

http://www.ncparks.gov/Visit/rules/docs/rules_subchapter_12b.pdf

about half way down.

 

[gc70]

The SHORT answer: concealed carry in national parks in NC will be legal under the new federal law, but will remain illegal (?) in NC state parks.

-----

The LONG answer:

The original Department of the Interior regulatory proposal provided for concealed carry in national parks subject to "the laws by which the host states govern transporting and carrying of firearms on their analogous public lands." In short, if you could carry in a state's parks, you could carry in a national park in that state. The "analogous public lands" provision was dropped from the final DOI regulation.

The new federal law (Section 512 of Public Law 111-24) provides the following:

(2) the possession of the firearm is in compliance with the law of the State in which the unit of the National Park System or the National Wildlife Refuge System is located.

Note that the federal law says nothing about complying with rules for state parks. The only things that matter are whether (1) a state allows concealed carry and (2) there is no state law that specifically bans concealed carry in national parks within the state.

Concealed carry in NC state parks is prohibited by the NC Administrative Code (section 15A NCAC 12B .0901). The regulatory prohibition was issued under the parks department's general statutory authority to manage state parks. There is no specific state law that prohibits concealed carry in state parks (and certainly not any law that addresses national parks) and the authority of the state parks department does not extend to national parks.

Furthermore, state law even appears to preempt the parks department's rule/regulation:

§ 14‑415.23. Statewide uniformity.

It is the intent of the General Assembly to prescribe a uniform system for the regulation of legally carrying a concealed handgun. To insure uniformity, no political subdivisions, boards, or agencies of the State nor any county, city, municipality, municipal corporation, town, township, village, nor any department or agency thereof, may enact ordinances, rules, or regulations concerning legally carrying a concealed handgun. A unit of local government may adopt an ordinance to permit the posting of a prohibition against carrying a concealed handgun, in accordance with G.S. 14‑415.11(c), on local government buildings, their appurtenant premises, and parks. (1995, c. 398, s. 1.)

 

[NavyLCDR]

gc70,

Thank you for posting the preemption statute. It does appear, according to that statute, that the parks department of North Carolina cannot prohibit the concealed carry of a firearm by permit holders in state parks. It would appear as if they could prohibit open carry.

I wish Washington's preemption statute was written the same way. Our preemption statute is pretty weak in comparison, because it only prohibits state agencies from criminalizing firearms possession, but does allow them the ability to prohibit firearms.

 

[gc70]

NavyLT,

The NC preemption statute is possibly not as strong as it appears at first glance. Since the statute says "may enact" it seems clear that anything done after the statute was adopted in 1995 would be preempted. However, the parks rule was adopted in 1976 and it could be argued that the state law does not specifically say that pre-existing "ordinances, rules, or regulations" are invalid.