Not Your Usual AR10A4/7.62 Questions

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NeverAgain26

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I finally did it. I got an AR10A4 last week. (The shame was I got it Thursday and had to leave for a trip overseas before I got a chance to play with it. I am still traveling now). I put a Trijicon Reflex II on the Flat Top Rail (I wanted a Tripower but there is a 37 week backlog on them as the first ones made need to have new lenses swapped out by Trijicon).

I have some questions on the ammo. I did hours of searching TFL and THR on these questions and did not really get a clear understanding of the answers:

1. I was told by Armalite I can use either .308 or 7.62 X 51 ammo. I understand that the interchagability of these ammo depends on the gun, but my gun takes both, so that is not an issue.

2. I see some companies carry 7.62 X 54 (some of them with an 'R' designation). I looked up the case specs on ammoguide and they seem to be different in case length. Can someone give me a brief explanation of the difference between 7.62 X 51 and 7.62 X 54 ammo? The 7.62 is the same, so I am assuming the 7.62 is bullet diameter. What part of the cartridge is the 51 or 54 part? Case length? Does 51 mean 51mm?

3. If case length is difference, I am assuming 7.62 X 51 and 7.62 X 54 can not be used in the same gun.

4. I also see 7.62 X 25 and 7.62 X 39. If my above assumptions are correct, then these ammos have the same bullet diameter but not the same length and cannot be used in my gun. Am I correct? What types of guns use these ammos?

5. I got a box of PMC ammo but I want to buy some surplus ammo. I did my homework and see that there are some countries' surplus ammo I need to stay away from. I wanted to know if there were any places I could buy small lots (100 plus rounds) of different types of surplus (even a bit more expensive) to try them out and see how the gun liked them. I did not want to get stuck with caseloads of ammo which my gun did not like.

6. I also wanted to try ammo in different bullet weights and see which worked best with my gun so the same applies; where can I get some small lots of different weights to try out?

7. Lastly, I would like some feedback from AR10A4 owners on what surplus ammo your guns do best with in terms of reliability and accuracy and where the best deal on that ammo is to be had.

I will be punching paper at 100 yards (with this sight, not much further I can go out; so I guess I need to look into an additional sight with magnification for longer range shooting). I have not done a lot of hunting yet, but I guess I will start this year).

Thanks in advance for all your help.

NA26
 
7. Lastly, I would like some feedback from AR10A4 owners on what surplus ammo your guns do best with in terms of reliability and accuracy and where the best deal on that ammo is to be had.

Former owner here. Mine worked well (and still works well for my Father) with South African surplus.
 
1. I was told by Armalite I can use either .308 or 7.62 X 51 ammo.
Yes.

Can someone give me a brief explanation of the difference between 7.62 X 51 and 7.62 X 54 ammo? The 7.62 is the same, so I am assuming the 7.62 is bullet diameter. What part of the cartridge is the 51 or 54 part? Case length? Does 51 mean 51mm?

The first number is the diameter of the bullet and the second number is the length. Both are measured in mm and the "R" denotes a rimmed case. 7.62x54R is an older cartridge normally used in Mosin-Nagants and will not work with your AR10. I believe all 7.62x54 is rimmed whether marked with an "R" or not.

3. If case length is difference, I am assuming 7.62 X 51 and 7.62 X 54 can not be used in the same gun.

Correct.

4. I also see 7.62 X 25 and 7.62 X 39. If my above assumptions are correct, then these ammos have the same bullet diameter but not the same length and cannot be used in my gun. Am I correct? What types of guns use these ammos?

Also correct, 7.62x25 is also known as 7.62mm Tokarev and is used in that pistol. 7.62x39 is also known as 7.62mm Soviet and was the main infantry rifle caliber of the Soviet Union for a long time (AK-47, AKM, RPK, SKS rifles all use this).

Can't help you with the other questions.
 
AAACCKK!

Probably one of the best investments you could make is to buy a current copy of a reloading manual. Even if you have no intention of reloading, you'll have one source of dimensional, historical and load data for LOTS of different cartridges. Great $20 investment. Speer, Lyman, etc.

As stated above, the 7.62x51 and 7.62x54R are nothing alike. Not only are the cases different length, they have different case shapes (Russian cartridge has a longer neck with lower shoulder). Plus, IIRC, the Russian 7.62 bullet is actually a nominal .311 vs .308.

In general, most mil-surp shooters advise the use of Portuguese, Austrailian, Hirtenberger or South African NATO 308. Most recommend staying away from Indian.

You can typically buy a battlepack (usually 140 or 200 rounds) of milsurp from several distributors.
 
All you can use is 7.62x51 NATO or .308WIN. For the latter, the heaviest you should probably use is 175gr.

For target work, I suggest using any of the "Match" ammunition from Black Hills or Federal. A more economical solution is to use handloads.

For surplus 7.62x51 NATO, I've had excellent luck with the Port. surplus, but it may not be available anymore.

-z
 
M80 NATO ball is by its nature going to be all the same bullet weight, 147 gr IIRC, however the loadings will all vary just slightly.

You can check several sources for the ammo, although nI'[mm not sure there's a "one stop shop" for milsurp.

AIM Surplus has carried SA and Port in the past. Sportsman's Guide carries Port and Austrailian currently. J&G Sales and many others carry Indian...don't waste your time. Easiest thing is probably to buy a copy of Shotgun News and read the ads.
 
I also see 7.62 X 25 and 7.62 X 39. If my above assumptions are correct, then these ammos have the same bullet diameter
Although they are all indicated by "7.62", they do not have the same bullet diameter (similar to how .38 Special is not really a .38 diameter bullet, it's .357).

- 7.62x39 and 7.62x54R have about a .311 diameter.

- 7.62x51 has a .308 diameter (as does 30-06).

- I'm not sure what the actual diameter is for the 7.62x25 bullet, mine mike to .306
 
Mine really, really likes the Aussie stuff. Good deals on it now from several places- ammoman.com, etc.

But the only 7.62x51mm surplus I've heard particularly bad things about is the Indian. The Portugese, South African, and Hirtenberger stuff are all good.

You mention hunting, so you should know that the AR-10 wasn't designed for (nor does it like) soft-point ammunition. You'll probably need to try out a couple of different types to get a good hunting load. I'm currently in the middle of this process myself.

Mark
 
I ordered some ammo today, mostly ball, but I ordered a couple of boxes of nosler ballistic tip as well. I am thinking it should feed well as it is not soft point or hollow point. Has anyone had experience with ballistic tip ammo in AR's?

NA26
 
Nosler Ballistic Tip bullets run perfectly through my AR-10. Just make sure you seat them to about the same OAL as factory ammo.

My plinking/3gun load is a 125gr Ballistic Tip with IMR-4895.

-z
 
Also, be very careful about the ammo you feed your new rifle.

Be wary of very heavy (180 grain and up) .308 ammo. The propellant used might burn too slowly, causing gas port erosion and really slamming your bolt and carrier.

Your best bet is to use only ball ammunition, or ammo marketed as safe in semi auto rifles. Hornady TAP and Federal Match are good examples.

I recommend handloading for this cartridge--you can really wring the potential out! My pet load for my M1A is the 155 grain Palma MatchKing with 42.0 of IMR 4895, Federal cases and primers. Talk about a tack driver!
 
Thanks for the reloading tips but I am not yet at the reloading stage. I buy all factory ammo now. One day :)

Powderman, thanks for the heads up on 180 gr. I was going to try some to see how it shot, but looks like I best keep away from it.

I am going to the range Friday when I get back from overseas. I have some new product to test there.

NA26
 
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