NYC Handgun and Long Gun Registration

[Arcli9ht]

Ok, so it turns out I am going to have to live in NYC a little longer than I expected, at least 2 years. I have boot camp for the Coast Guard followed by Gunners Mate A-School to look forward to in the coming weeks. So before I get sent off, I think I should make my applications to both the Handgun Licensing Department and the Long Gun Licensing Department. I have a number of questions though, and none of the nitwits at either department have been able to give me a satisfactory answer.

1. Long gun licensing takes about 4 months according to the nitwit at that office. How long does handgun licensing take? I have heard 1 year or 6 months or it will be rejected because they don’t like giving out permits, etc. I have no good reason on my record to disqualify me from this, so I don’t think they will reject my application.

2. For the handgun license, I would like a CCW permit. Is this possible? Can I make up some necessity to have it using the Coast Guard as an excuse? I assume just being in the Coast Guard does not make me exempt from the licensing process and that just living in New York City doesn't equate to necessity.

3. How long does it take to register each firearm once I get the license?

4. For each license, I have to pay the 74 dollar fingerprinting fee, can I just pay for that once and have them use the same record for both? or would that be too easy and cost effective?

5. Does anyone have experience with the process and have any tips for me to expedite the whole process or at least have it run smoothly?

/Arcli9ht

Edit was to clear up a spelling error, then another.

 

[CaesarI]

I'm interested in the answer too, I might end up in NYC for a few years, and would LOVE to be able to protect myself.

The story I heard was that CCW permits are only available to the politically connected, getting a permit just to have a handgun is rough enough as it is. If rifles are easier to get permits for I think I'll just register a shotgun for defense of home/apartment.

-Morgan

 

[Arcli9ht]

btt

 

[alan]

Archli9ht, CaesarI, and anyone else interested:

In 1967, I permanently removed myself from NYC, where I had grown up, due entirely to the cities enactment of the long gun registration ordinance. By the way, the original fee was $5.00, which covered ANY NUMBER OF RIFLES AND OR SHOTGUNS. Last time I inquired, 10 plus years ago the registration fee was $50.00 EACH/per year. I imagine that "processing fees", fingerprinting and such were additional, and or outrageous.

As to the time element involved in dealings with NYPD Firearms Licensing/Permitting, unless one is WELL CONNECTED, figure in terms of MONTHS, as many as bureaucratic foolishness can arrange. For those who are sufficiently well connected, the necessary forms will be hand delivered, to you.

As for a Carry Permit, without restrictions, in NYC, once again, unless you are either rich or well connected, the two usually go together, "FORGEDABOUDIT", as the old saying goes, unless one is prepared to go to court, and spend many bucks, and much time.

Now then, in the foregoing, and the following, I could certainly be wrong, but from my personal experience of some years back, as well as from what I've been told, heard or otherwise obtained, you are facing the following situations. The entire firearms licensing/registration/permitting proceedure in NYC is as corrupt as a summers day is long, and it always was. Then there is the "attitudinal" problem, to use a polite term, that amounts to the following. We, we being officaldom, don't want them, them being mere mortals like you two gentlemen, to have those things, those things being firearms, and to hell with such arcane considerations as constitutional and or civil rights, or the sad fact that the police cannot, with the best possible intentions, intentions which realistically might or might not exist, protect the individual. More interesting yet is the fact that courts at various levels, and in various jurisdictions have said that the police owe no particular duty to the individual, no particular duty most assuredly including the protection of one's person.

Seems as if one were to describe the existing situation as something of a CATCH 22, that they would be a whole lot more right, than wrong, but that is the way the thing is in NYC. Other parts of the state might be somewhat better, but that is largely a question of Luck of the Draw. If anytone had differing experiences, information of their own "take" on the foregoing, "fire away", agh, a terrible pun.

Archli9ht: you can be a "student" in any number of locales, though your military connection might be a limiting factor, in that you have to pretty much go where they send you.

CaesarI: Re moving to NYC, depending on how strongly you feel about one thing or another, you might well consider a different locale.

Obviously, the action that I took, mentioned in my post, worked for me. It might not work for another. The contract engineering work that I did took me all over the place. Where I actually was, or where I spent most of my time, having little if any relation to where I "lived". A hellish strange way to live, but I had much fun and enjoyment, for many years.

 

[SB1]

My NYC Permit process experience.

Ok Let me summarize where I am at with the permit process in NYC. First and foremost is concealed carry is impossible in NYC. Unless you are retired pd, business owner with a demonstrable case of carrying valuables daily, or victim of crime with possibility of repeat threats would you be a candidate for ccw. A judge would make a decision of victim of crime. There are premise permits available which allow you to own a firearm within your business or home. Pistol cannot leave such premises unless going to a handful of approved ranges and while in transit gun is to remain unloaded, locked with ammo in a separate container. Although not a requirement, membership to a gun club is "necessary" for a favorable judgement from NYC. I contacted a club for help in completion of permit paperwork, training, and 1 years membership for if I remember correctly was $140 dollars refundable if I am denied "priviledges"

Took an hour from work and went to One Police Plaza to pick up paperwork for permit. Spent a day with the club member on a Saturday completing paperwork(he came to my house with all necessary items) Took 2 pictures needed and they typed up paperwork and sent to me for delivery in person to OPP.
Per instructions, I obtained two money orders one payable to NYC for $255 for processing and another $75 to Criminal justice for fingerprints. Neither of these fees are refundable regardless of approval. I took off a day from work January 8 of this year and waited two hours before I was able to submit application. The clerk then informs me my money orders are incorrectly filled out and I need to get a new money order. The CJ no longer collects the fee for fingerprints, NYC does so the $75 mo was out the window. I showed him the instructions which clearly states to complete the mo this way. His quote was " the rules changed last week, sorry" I ran down to the post office to get a new money order and returned to wait another hour to see the clerk. I was fingerprinted, given a receipt with my case number and informed that an investigator will contact me with an interview apppointment. If the interview goes well and I am approved I have a 30 day window to purchase a pistol which then must be brought down to OPP for inspection. If I do not purchase a pistol within the 30 day window, I have to resubmit the paperwork all over again including fees.
I have not heard a thing from them in nearly 3 months (this Tuesday will be 3 mos) and calls have been placed and answered with somebody will call you back. A very expensive quest for my right to exercise my 2nd ammendment.
I was told I must receive an answer from them no longer than 6 months time. Well, I am halfway there and all I have done was give them money. I have no criminal history, no moving violations, married, employed, no drugs, don't smoke. I don't think I have ever had a need to call 911 in my life(thankfully). I can't imagine I would hear anything but a yes. I would be surprised otherwise. If anyone wants to contact the club I joined to help with the paperwork, send me a PM and I will give you the information.

Good Luck.

 

[alan]

SB1:

In your post, at the end thereof, you noted the following: "I can't imagine I would hear anything but a yes. I would be surprised otherwise".

Re your potential for "surprise", were I you, I wouldn't bet anything against "surprise", that I couldn't live happily and comfortably without.

Good luck in any case, and I certainly am glad that I choose to leave NYC when I did. By the way, in my view, respecting recent local government activity, it has gotten very much worse, and for the most part, I no longer smoke.

 

[SB1]

Good point. I was just thinking that if I was deemed unresponsible to own a firearm, then who is?

 

[SB1]

link for info

http://www.ci.nyc.ny.us/html/nypd/html/dclm/ldinfo.html

Link isn't working sorry

 

[Arcli9ht]

Like most of the NYC websites, the information on that page, for one reason or another is out of date. I have yet to find any two pages run by the City of New York that agree on the ammounts to be paid to who, and the types of licenses that you can get.

One of the biggest annoyences with this whole process is the campaign of disinformation the PD puts out. You never know exactly what is going on or what you have to do. Even talking to two different nitwits down at their office, you wont get the same answer twice. :banghead:

/Arcli9ht

 

[mjustice]

Arcli9ht:

1. Rifle and Shotgun registration only exists within the City of New York, and (big surprise) they neglected to put a maximum wait time in the Administrative Code. My experience with friends is that it normally runs 3-6 months, with 4-5 being the average time these days.

Pistol Licensing Officers, by law, cannot take more than six months to act on application (accept or reject). Any delay must be with respect to the applicant. The jokers at One Police Plaza seem to think that they are above the law (even though this law was passed specifically to force them to issue) and have been known to take as long as 8 months. Of the last two people I have known to apply (both in 2002), one took 4.5 months and the other took closer to 8. Polite phone calls to the investigator after six months are OK, but don't bring out the artillery until the eight-month mark. On more than one occasion the NYPD will try and reject someone, only to have to issue the license at a CPLR Article 78 hearing. These days the real problem isn't even the anti-gun brass - it's the incompetent staff.

2. Unless you are retired Law Enforcement, a business with serious risk (a banker who normally carries 125K was recently rejected) or have *deep* political connections, you are not going to receive a carry license from the NYPD. Unless you are *on-duty* (as in actively engaged in your duties) with the USCG, you are supposed to have a license for any weapon you privately own in New York City.

3. My understanding with the rifles and shotguns is that you are supposed to mail in a certificate after you purchase the weapon. With pistols, you must file a written request to purchase another handgun, and then wait for them to OK you to come down to One Police Plaza and pick up a Purchase Authorization. They will only issue a Purchase Authorization once every three months, and the process can take 6-8 weeks to complete.

4. The $74 fee is not for fingerprints. It is for the Criminal Background check performed by the New York State Department of Criminal Justice Services (DCJS). This fee is the same for every pistol License applicant, from Buffalo to Montauk.

The Rifle/Shotgun section is not the same as the Pistol License section. One is in Kew Gardens, Queens and the other is in Downtown Manhattan. They don't share information (usually) and process applications independently. Sorry, but you are going to have to pay twice.

5. As long as you can read the documents (and they are current), you really should not have too many problems figuring it all out. The only hassle with the Pistol License application is that it has to be typewritten. Some of the local clubs will do it for a fee (like Westside) but I am sure if you look around you can find a typewriter to use.

Other things:

Alan is not entirely correct. The fee for a rifle/shotgun permit is $55.00 and it is good for two or three years (the number escapes me at the moment, but I am pretty sure it is three). It does cover all of your longarms. The only other fee you need to pay is the background check fee ($74).

Also keep in mind that NYC has an Assault Weapons Law that is more stringent than the Federal or New York ban (the NY State ban is the same as the Federal one except there is no sunset clause)

I lived in Brooklyn for 21 years and moved out in part due to the Draconian gun laws (taxes and rent costs were other major issues). I can buy more guns in one day in Nassau County than a NYC resident can buy in two years. No other municipality in New York requires a permit or registration for rifles or shotguns. If you don't have to live in the five boroughs, don't. Mass transit is generally good here and you can come in from the suburbs easily, for work and play.

New York City recently (June 2001) converted all of the restricted licenses for target shooting and hunting into premise licenses. While within the five boroughs it really doesn't matter, legally speaking, these licenses are not valid outside your premises. The police and DAs in the surrounding counties know that the NYPD likes to make things up as they go along and they don't harass licensees. But I have read of at least one instance where a NYC licensee was not allowed to shoot on a range in Putnam County.

Things here are the mess. But there are groups here that are working to try and get some changes passed (like SCOPE-NYC). If you need more information or have additional questions, feel free to reply to this thread or send me a PM.

Good Luck,
MJ
(Brooklyn 1978-1999)

 

[SB1]

MJ, I am moving to Nassau County in July. I am under the assumption that my license if approved will allow me to keep my firearm once an inspection by NCPD is completed. Is this incorrect? How complicatedwas the move with your firearms?

Also apologies for hijacking the thread. I am hoping everyone can learn from these experiences.

 

[alan]

Mjustice:

Re your comment on incompetent staff, where did all these conveniently incompetent staffers come from, is something that I'm slightly curious about, and given the complications in the subway system, compared to what it used to be like, how do they find their way from wherever it is that they live, to where they "work".

Other than that, you might have me on the duration of long gun registration life. It was my understanding, based on conversation with an expat New Yorker, another floater like myself, that it was a per year thing. Of course either he could have been wrong, or perhaps I was talking, while I should have been listening.

The foregoing aside, the fees mentioned are absolutely ridiculous, and amount to a clear case of economic discrimination. As to the characters at One Police Plaza, thinking that "they are above the law" they pretty much are, and the clowns in the state legislature do not help the situation at all either, as has been to a large extent, so far as I know, the case with the courts. In any event, I will stand on my earlier characterization, that being that the entire lashup is as corrupt and crooked as the proverbial summers day is long. One might go so far as to describe ythe thing as a police state apparatus.

In Pennsylvania, where I live, the fee for a carry permit or license, when last I renewed mine, was $17.50, though I believe that it has gone up to $19.00, and that is for 5 years. There is no discretion allowed, and very specific disqualifying circumstances, spelled out in the law, must apply to the applicant. Absent such disqualifying circumstances, the County Sheriff, who is the issuing authority WILL ISSUE the carry license. The sheriff has 45 days to act on an application, after which he is required to either issue or to state in detail, why he didn't. If he declines to issue, he must be prepared to defend his action, in court.

Two more things. No particular "need" is required. Preprinted on the license form under Reason to Carry is the following. Protection-Sport. The thing is called Pennsylvania License To Carry Firearms, and there are no restrictions on such license, such as Target Shooting or Residence or Place of Business.

End of rant.

 

[Arcli9ht]

The long gun registration must be renewed either every year, or every three years.. I don't remember. Oh, and you have to pay an additional 75 beans every time you renew it.

/Arcli9ht

I'd leave the city right now, but I'm getting free rent by living at home. Getting all this stuff registered at school isn't an option either... for some dumb reason I decided to go to school in Massachusetts.

 

[alan]

Arcli9ht:

When did you discover this tendency toward hitting your head against the wall?

Put in simple, plain spoken terms, NYC has gotten to be pretty much a police state, it seems to me, a place that I simply would not consider living in, at least not without significant changes, they being something that I do not realistically expect to ever see.

It is rather sad too, but that it the way it is. Good luck to you in any case.

 

[mjustice]

SB1:

The way the law operates you are supposed to have your license "transferred" to the new county, and pay the fee required by law ($10). But Nassau wants you to have their license and you'll have to pay the $200 for five years. I don't believe you can convert the time on yout NYC license into "Nassau time". Once the records are transferred and the fees are paid (it takes about a week) your Nassau license will be valid and all of your NYC pistols will already be on it without having to re-amend your license.

I did not apply for my pistol license until I moved to Nassau.

MJ

 

[mjustice]

Alan:

Most of the new knucleheads are police officers who have no history in this division, as well as Police Administrative Aides (PAAs), clerical workers designed to move the paper so that there are more police available for patrol and criminal investigations. These clowns are just as out-of-control as the police. How they get to and from work is a mystery to me too.

The fees are absurd, but this is one of the many things I cannot directly blame the police for. The license fees for both longarms and handguns are set by the New York City Council. They could lower the price to $1 tomorrow but choose not to because their "enlightened" views on gun control seem to contradict all of the research that has been conducted over the past 100 years or so.

I have a PA carry license, and I only paid $19 as well. In fact, I conducted the entire transaction by mail! Pennsylvania has a shall-issue law and it works. It's that simple. Activists in New York State has been trying for years and getting nowhere, thanks in part to the New York State Assembly (which is controlled by the New York City Assembly Democrats).

Restrictions on licenses are somewhat new here in New York (post 1970). There is no basis in law for these restrictions, yet the Court of Appeals has indicated on several occasions that they are legitimate (despite the fact that, on the surface, they are not [state] constitutional). About half of the 62 counties in New York do not (normally) issue restrictions on licenses.

I am doing all I can to change this, but one person can only do so much. If I had more support from downstate residents (Ahem!) I am sure that we could have more of an impact with the legislature.

MJ

 

[SB1]

Need to learn

MJ, where can I read up on this? I am so wet behind the ears. I check this website daily.
The way I figure is that if more law abiding people like myself go about this the right way, maybe we can make a difference(albeit a small one)

Signed,

Willing to learn

 

[sar]

As a long time resident of NYC and gun owner I can only add one thing - you have not lived until you have been to the License Divsion at 1 PP. The PAAs there even give the cops who have register guns (personal guns and retiring cops) a hard (and rude) time. It is proof that common sense and hard work have died here in NYC.

 

[mjustice]

SB1:

What are you looking to learn? I have not been involved with this fight for too long - my passion for activism was started when I had to wait 5 1/2 months for a Nassau pistol license back in 2001. I found the Penal Law that dealt with Pistol Licenses (§400) and it took off from there. I would be more than happy to answer your questions or point out resources you can use to learn the laws, politics of this movement.

What do you feel the right way is? From all of the local people that I have spoken to in the past few years, most of the traditional methods don't work for one reason or another. While there is no need for "die-ins" in front of One Police Plaza, the pro-gun movement in New York (especially New York City) needs to be much more vocal and much more public. The last real public outcry I can remember 'round here was the protest in front of City Hall before the City Council passed the 1991 Assault Weapon Ban. There are plenty of oppurtunities for NY gun owners to make noise, write letters, and generally be visible. Most never materialize.

I'd like to change that, but I think I need more active, committed folks to stand with me (besides the handful of early-adopters I have found). Those hiding in the shadows would be more willing to get off the fence and get involved if they saw some progress.

MJ

[edited for clarity]