OAL and my first handloads

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DeadFlies

DeadFlies

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SO I finally put together my very first handloads just a few days ago. They looked like this:

9mm
115gr Remington MC (FMJ)
Winchester case
Winchester SPP
5.2 grains of Unique
OAL 1.150

I loaded up 16 rounds (two full mags) and ran them through my Hi-Point C9. I got one round from each magazine that failed to go into battery fully. Not catastrophic failures; just puled the slide back a bit then bumped it forward and was ready to rock again. This happens occasionally with factory ammo but more like every 8-10 mags, not every one.

I suppose I should be happy that they fired at all instead of disappointed that I couldn't get through a full magazine without a malf. My concern is that I didn't get the OAL right and perhaps the crimp wasn't what it should be.

My question is mostly about OAL; is longer better, generally speaking? Also I'm worried that I may not have crimped them enough and that they may have been hanging up on the still-flared mouth. The bullets seemed to be seated solidly but the cases still looked a bit bell-mouthed. How do you get your crimp tweaked just right with the bullet seating die?

Thanks
 
1.150" might be too long and hitting the rifling.

1. Use the barrel of your gun with the slide off to "chamber check" what OAL needs to be.
If the bullet is hitting the rifling leade, it will not drop in & out of the chamber freely.

Some call it the "Plunk Test".
It should drop in all the way flush with the back edge of the barrels chamber with a Plunk, and fall back out of its own weight.


You can color a loaded round with a black Magic-Marker and chamber it to see what is rubbing where.

2. Your taper crimp should measure .376" with dial calipers at the case mouth if done properly.

rc
 
Congratulations on your first loads...:cool:

As rcmodel says, using the barrel is crucial.

What surprised me most when I began reloading and first tried the "plunk" test, was that rounds out of the book didn't always pass the barrel test. Finding the exact bullet and the exact profile is pretty difficult so everything should be tested in the chamber of the gun you are using.

On crimping, I use a single stage press and can "feel" the crimp. All I can say is for me there is barely any contact between the die and the case. The case shouldn't show any flare - it just needs to be parallel with the bullet.

Are you crimping in a separate step?
 
Peter_S said:
Congratulations on your first loads...:cool:

As rcmodel says, using the barrel is crucial.

What surprised me most when I began reloading and first tried the "plunk" test, was that rounds out of the book didn't always pass the barrel test. Finding the exact bullet and the exact profile is pretty difficult so everything should be tested in the chamber of the gun you are using.

On crimping, I use a single stage press and can "feel" the crimp. All I can say is for me there is barely any contact between the die and the case. The case shouldn't show any flare - it just needs to be parallel with the bullet.

Are you crimping in a separate step?
Click to expand...
I'm not crimping separately. I'm just using the seating die to crimp.
 
Yes, but you will have better luck just flaring a little.

I like to flair enough to hand-start bullets in the cases after I charge 50 rounds in a loading block with powder and compare & verify powder levels in all of then.

Then hand start bullets just enough they are straight, and so I can pick them up without spilling the powder while seating.

rc
 
1.15 OAL is probably too long... a cnl might not hang up, as it wouldn't be as wide as far forward... but an ogival? IIRC, 1.1 or so is the norm for duty ammo, isn't it? the extra .05 might be just enough to push it out of battery slightly if it meets the rifling wrong.
 
Texan Scott said:
1.15 OAL is probably too long... a cnl might not hang up, as it wouldn't be as wide as far forward... but an ogival? IIRC, 1.1 or so is the norm for duty ammo, isn't it? the extra .05 might be just enough to push it out of battery slightly if it meets the rifling wrong.
Click to expand...
The Lee manual says min OAL is 1.120 and I know that Winchester White Box, which always feeds well for me, is 1.169 so I roughly split the difference. I seated two rounds at 1.115 (accidentally) and the second round didn't feed so I went bigger.

Also, Remington UMC 115 grain (both FMJ and JHP) always work well and I know they are much shorter than WWB. That's why I thought maybe the crimp was messing me up and not OAL issues.
 
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Unless the bullet ogive shape of the WWB is exactly the same as the Rem bullet you are using?

You can't go off of that measurement.

Different bullet ogive shapes will hit the rifling sooner or later, and OAL has to be determined in each gun, with each different bullet, by the Plunk Test.

That's why I thought maybe the crimp was messing me up
Click to expand...
Thats still possible.

Did you measure it at .376" with a caliper like I suggested 8 posts ago?
Did you try the Magic-Marker coloring like I suggested 8 posts ago?

rc
 
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My question is mostly about OAL; is longer better, generally speaking? Also I'm worried that I may not have crimped them enough and that they may have been hanging up on the still-flared mouth. The bullets seemed to be seated solidly but the cases still looked a bit bell-mouthed. How do you get your crimp tweaked just right with the bullet seating die?
Click to expand...

One problem with flairing and crimping is if you do not have all the cases trimmed to the exact same length, they will not all flair or crimp the same. If you initially set up for the short ones, the long ones will have too much and if you set up for the long ones, the short ones won't get enough.

I think all new reloaders should start out with uniform cases and after they gain expertise then it will all come together.

When starting, take 50 cases (if for handguns) and get them all uniform to each other, that will eliminate a lot of beginner's troubles.
 
Another reloader posted that factory Remington115 gr. MC is 1.112" oal. I suspect your oal is too long?
 
Ok, so I did the "plunk" test. And it plunked. Even with ridiculously long OALs (like 1.270) it would still plunk and my dummy round would fall out of the barrel. I couldn't make it stick. I even did it with a really short OAL (.970) and got the same results.

What gives? Is the rifling on this pistol worn out or something??? Maybe it just needs a good cleaning? Perhaps I was doing it wrong?

And my crimp was .376.
 
No, worn rifling is not possible with your likely low round count, and wouldn't cause your chambering problems even if it were.

Have you cleaned and lubed the gun properly since it used to work with factory loads??
Have you tried factory loads again to see if it still works with them?

On the other hand.
You said you did the Plunk test, and you said you measured the crimp at .376".

But did you try the Magic-Marker to see what is tight where on a round that doesn't chamber properly?

rc
 
rcmodel said:
No, worn rifling is not possible with your likely low round count, and wouldn't cause your chambering problems even if it were.

Have you cleaned and lubed the gun properly since it used to work with factory loads??
Have you tried factory loads again to see if it still works with them?

On the other hand.
You said you did the Plunk test, and you said you measured the crimp at .376".

But did you try the Magic-Marker to see what is tight where on a round that doesn't chamber properly?

rc
Click to expand...
It should be pretty clean. It never goes more than a few hundred rounds without the bore getting a good scrubbing. Ususally far less than that.

I didn't do the magic marker test because it seemed that nothing was tight anywhere. Like I said, the dummy round just fell right out regardless of the OAL. But I suppose it couldn't hurt to do it anyway.

So just paint up the bullet with a sharpie, drop the dummy round into the barrel, take it out and see where the black is rubbed off?

EDIT: Oh, I see. I need a round that won't chamber properly. Don't have one around but next time I'll be sure to save it and do the marker test. If I understand you correctly, that is.
 
more than a few hundred rounds without the bore getting a good scrubbing.
Click to expand...
A squeaky clean bore is not the same thing as cleaned and lubed slide rails, cleaned & lubed extractor pivot, cleaned magazines, etc.

Dry slide rails and other points increase friction and impede slick feeding.
A clean bore is really immaterial to anything feed related.

rc
 
Sounds like a crimp issue to me. Dillon Precision makes a case gauge for about $15 on ebay that will help ensure your ammo will chamber in ANY 9mm chamber. I find it quite helpful when loading for autoloader pistol cartridges.
 
4895:
Sounds like a crimp issue to me. Dillon Precision makes a case gauge for about $15 on ebay that will help ensure your ammo will chamber in ANY 9mm chamber.
Click to expand...

No offense, but that's not quite correct. It checks within SAAMI Stds. The bullet nose shape makes a BIG difference in some pistols. Eastern European guns for example. The CZ and XD have short chambers that won't allow many published data OALs for HP and flat nose, especially in conical nose.

The "PlunK" test recommended by rcmodel is one way to tell..

Here is another test easy to do with any pistol to check for the max. oal it will run safely with that particular bullet:

Use some "spent and UNsized" range cases that your bullet will fit into by hand. Insert it just far enough into the case to hold it. Using just the gun's bbl, slowly push this into the chamber until it firmly seats on the case mouth. Turn the bbl up and gently pull the test rd out and measure it. Do this with several cases until you get some consistent results. THIS is the oal that HITS the rifling.
Subtract .015" and that's the MAX USABLE oal that is go-to-go in "that pistol" with "that" bullet. Different bullets and pistols will get different results.


HP, FP, and especially Conical Nose bullets normally require the shortest oals.
 
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UPDATE

I loaded up another 8 rounds (one full magazine) last night. I tried seating a bullet without flaring the case mouth and it worked so I did them all that way. Worked great and no need to worry about crimping. I also increased the powder charge from 5.2 grains to 5.4 grains (max load in the Lee book is 5.5) and set the OAL at 1.130.

All eight rounds ran through my Hi-Point with no problems. A full, flawless magazine of handloads. I'm so happy.
 
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