Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by Trey Veston, Apr 21, 2021.
The response, “The flag has to go somewhere.”
That is the day that I lost any remaining respect for this store and its policies. It was no longer about true safety but exercising control and bureaucracy.
I can live w the silly but anyone can learn or acknowledge fault, to refuse to do so in a safety situation is intolerable.
Mark, if you’d actually read my post, nowhere in there does it state that I was trying “to walk around in a retail store with a uncased gun in hand”. I had taken no more than 2 steps in, which is in a direct line to the counter the guy was hollering from, carrying the pistol in a way that anyone could see was safed (also in my post, he gave me “credit” for the way I carried it in); it was extended out so there was NO mistaking the condition it was in.
Also in my post, you might notice that the other 2 gun stores I carried it in to, in the same manner, simply asked, very non-chalantly, if they could just take a quick double-check...I guess there may be different “social norms” 6 or 8 blocks away.
The latter is almost exclusively a problem of big retail chains like Bass Pro and Walmart. I don't bother trying to buy guns from those places as I inevitably get worked up about one thing or another.
The former, though, I tend to put up with, as there usually is a reason. My biggest routine annoyance is the "one shot per second" (or three seconds, or even five in one place I know of) range rules - but then, I cannot count the number of times I have seen some nut emptying a gun as rapidly as possible while hitting nothing but the floor, walls, and target hangers.
With regard to bringing guns into the shop: if it is a cased gun that will need to be inspected by an employee - a consignment gun, a CCW renewal, etc. - I think it is conscientious to unlock the case, turn it to the employee, and invite him to take the gun out himself. This always is appreciated - you know that these guys have all had guns pointed at them by customers - and so far has not resulted in any problems.
I've always taken 'em in cased. And I let the first counter person I see let 'em know what I've got, why it's there and that they're free to uncase it and check it should they wish.
Personally, I've never walked in the door of a place with bare blued or stainless steel in hand.
I figure their house, their rules and/or preferences when it comes to a firearm outside its case or leather.
I'm a kitchen table dealer, so I don't get the volume of customers that a retail brick & mortar store does.......but I've had my fair share of customers bringing me a loaded gun to ship. That fair share is one. Customer was as surprised as I was when I racked the slide and a round flew out. "But I racked it!"......yeah, then you dropped the loaded magazine. Drop mag first, then rack until empty.
The only other live round in a firearm was a Bersa that was returned from their "factory service center" here in Texas. The gunsmith that fixed it shipped it back cocked, safety off and a round in the chamber.
All it takes is one "but its not loaded" gun to ruin my day, my business and result in serious injury or worse. So I have silly rules for myself to visually clear EVERY firearm I unbox when logging into my records. Doesn't matter if it a factory new gun or used.
You would be surprised how many customers want to show me their carry gun......because they think I haven't seen a Glock 19 or a Sig 365. Or the customer that pulled his homemade snap caps out of his pocket to see if they would fit in his new revolver. No, you are gonna do that at home, not here. And I know they aren't live. But loading a gun with anything at the dealers counter or table is beyond stupid.
The "Walk of Shame" that causes so much angst may seem silly to many, but it's the result of unsafe if not criminal acts. For a big box chain I'm sure those number in the hundreds a year. For the same reasons, every gun that leaves my dining room is in a box or case. Its not required by any law, but I'm aware that not every one of my neighbors is as comfortable looking at at rifle/shotgun/pistol as I am.
Mark, and if I’d had a case, don’tcha think I’da used it?? Again, the other 2 stores simply asked me if they could double-check, the SLIDE LOCKED, NO MAG, HANGING...UPSIDE DOWN , FROM MY LITTLE FINGER, BY THE TRIGGER GUARD, pistol...
Oh btw, “their rules and/or preferences” is something I completely agree with. However, there is nothing outside the shop (at least at that time) that required everything be cased and/or holstered.
I’m finished here.
Last time I bought a gun at RK, they had me pay and sent me on my way. No escort to the door "due to the pandemic"
How do they enforce this if you're paying with cash? Do they demand the money before you can leave?
Dunno, I haven’t seen any reason to patronize them.
Sadly, I probably wouldn't. Between a lifetime as a paramedic and a lifetime as a shooter, I won't say that I have seen everything but I will say that I have seen enough. If the owner of the gun store has some seemingly foolish rule, I will assume that he has good reason for it. (I'm still not going to buy a gun from Walmart, though.)
That said, some base or post exchanges do have gun counters. I have bought at two different Marine Corps Exchange gun counters. The procedures there are even more complex than a simple walk of shame. After the expected 4473 process and approval the buyer must sign several additional documents. One is an agreement to immediately drive directly off-base, no intermediate stops, from the exchange as soon as you leave the store (with, of course the walk of shame to the store exit). The other is an agreement to call both the base provost or security police office AND the exchange office before bringing the gun back on base to the store for any reason, and then follow up with the gate security guard when you do show up.
Being used to military ways, we don't question all that, we just follow the procedures.
* I truly enjoyed a visit to the US Special Operations Command Headquarters (USSOCOM HQ) several years ago, where almost every one in uniform on the installation was wearing a side arm. THAT is how to treat soldiers!
Rural King has a similar policy. Too many urban "cowboys" with fake IDs or such. One store had 10 guns end up in Chicago so now they can only use drivers licenses, no IDs.
And you have to hand over your drivers license just to see a gun. Even small towns are seeing an increase in thugs.
I doubt it is real
And with all due respect ColoradoMinuteMan, your previous experience with the FPD notwithstanding, your stating that I was “...walking into a public place, gun-in-hand...” is a mischaracterization of what took place.
I could have walked in, literally gun-in-hand, WITH my finger on-the-trigger, pointing/aiming at the dude...but had the pistol, ‘covered up’, in a pair of my underwear, (uh, and...TRUST me; no one wants to see that!) and the guy would have been perfectly happy.
You & some others seem to not take notice of the fact that the other 2 shops I walked in to, didn’t bat-an-eye. I’ve never stated it was an ‘ideal’ situation, but the other 2 shops seemed to have understood that the only safer way for me to have taken the pistol in uncased, was to have brought it in disassembled. Had I been taking it in to a Big-5 or some other “sporting goods” store, rather than an actual “gun store”, I would have understood the guy’s reaction.
To his credit, he played it off incredibly cool. I believe he shot himself in the upper thigh. He didn't really lose his cool, in fact he sort of acted like it was a perfect segue into the next segment of his demonstration. Something to the effect of "Now kids, this is why I'm telling you all this, this is the kind of thing that comes from fooling with a gun" and then he positioned himself like he was just going to continue on with the lesson and some fellow officers or staffers were like "no, no, no man. You're spraying arterial blood and need immediate attention, we need to get you out of here, you've just scarred these children for life". I dont know that they said that, but they definitely got him out of there quick.
I don't know what became of the officer but I guess the silver lining was that I'm pretty sure those kids got some good first hand experience on why you should not "fool wit guns".
once, it's definitely a different vibe.
I've only ever shopped at one store which had this policy (my local Scheels) but they have since stopped doing this. I must admit though, I didn't know this was their policy the first time I bought a gun from there, so when the employee held on to the gun in the case and began walking with me, it was pretty awkward. What happens when we get to the front door? Do we hug?
Every single other time I've bought a gun I was handed the gun at the counter and free to leave on my own accord.
As we've unfortunately found out a few times, almost completely unarmed military bases make great places for domestic terror attacks.
Also, unless you left a lot out of your original post, I don't see anything indicating that the store would somehow be ok with complete lack of regard for all other safety protocol. The underwear thing sounds like more of an attempt at humor, but I wasn't there. My perspective is that if I'm transporting a firearm, it's going to in a holster or container that protects it from damage, protects the trigger from being depressed and that meets any legal requirements of the method of transportation.
Separate names with a comma.